New Job Musings........Your Input Welcomed

[Jumper]

So two weeks down and over, and I am enjoying and learning.

A couple of situations are present I never have had to deal with before.

First off I was hired as a ground guy with some experience....and a willingness to assist whatever might be needed to get the job done which does not always mean being on the ground. Let me say my wage reflects my lot in life, if I strictly was on the ground. Three times in the last weeks I have been tasked to clip large and high cedar hedges by myself, and with no direct supervision. For the record hedges in general are not my favourites, but they come with the territory. Nor is tetering at the top of a 15 foot step ladder while hefting a power pruner with hedging attachment/head. I seriously believe climbing a tree would be less physical; at least once you get up there, it is all about working down if you have planned your climb right in most cases. I must have climbed that $#*! ladder fifty times at least last place. You/I know advancement is the name of the game, but hedges are a no brainer which I unfortunately seem to be reasonably competant at; job 2 rated a phone call from the customer saying she was extremely satisfied with the job we both did. The hedge bill Friday was $450; I worked five hours by myself on the task, and got the princely sum of $60. Am I being unreasonable in expecting a little more if I am expected to carry out hedge trimming and smaller tree pruning tasks as well, especially two weeks into the job?????


Second point, company has three climbing arborists, and I am the only ground guy. It is confusing enough trying to get it right for three different people; I do respect climbers have specific ways they want things done but keeping this all in separate "pockets" is not always easy given I can be assigned to any of them any day. Then there are the jobs where I am expected to keep two climbers happy at the same time-eg one says put the bull rope away, and I start that, and the other decides he wants to use it to lower another branch. I will have to get everyone's likes and dislikes straight in my mind, but dealing with two bosses at the same job site is enough to drive me nuts. Makes you appreciate a military chain of command system, and I think I am going to have to politely say to the owner that working for two arborists at the same time is OK, but only one can be telling me what to do ie as a foreman except in emergency situations or as it directly deals with supporting the other climber in the tree. Anyone else out there ever have a similar experience?? For the record all three guys are really decent individuals.

 

[Jumper]

I do not want to be God's gift to anybody, and as far as $$$$ I am financially able to sit at home on my @ss, but would not be a happy camper doing do. I will stick this out, at least until I get offered a job in Kabul (seriously) . I have done hedges before but always from the ground, and always in concert with an arborist/boss. It is a lot easier if two people are working on something. I do wonder if I might have undersold myself from the beginning as K intoned my skills such as they are could be worth more during the interview, but then I am not familiar with the Toronto work/wage market. Watch and wait.

 

[Mattman]

I think you need to be a little more patient whith the $'s, and be a little more agressive with the work load. When I used to work for others I would make it a habit of mine to show up early, stay late, and work twice as fast as everybody else. I would constantly nag my boss for the chance to learn more, and when the time came that I felt I was consistantly outperforming the rest of the crew for at least three months I would request more money. I wouldn't settle for anything less than a twenty percent raise. If I didn't get it I would very quietly go out and find another job. Never let your boss know exactly what's on your mind.

Matt

 

[M.D. Vaden]

12 to 15 dollars per hour is decent when working for someone.

I'd think it was fair, but I'd desire to be able to dish out $20 per hour for anything. But that takes time.

A business has a lot invested to get their $390 worth out of it.

One, its not all clear, there will be a tax.

It take a lot of advertising, and a sometimes several incomplete schedule years to get there.

And the equipment wear and tear comes out of the $390, not your $60.

You can glean a lot more when its for yourself, but remember, the daily schedule may have some huge gaps for a while.

I put out advertising to 4000 homes on foot during some years. That time was not paid. So the income gained by my helpers has to cover for that time also.

I don't believe in 40 hours on the job and 30 more doing bookwork and advertising.

For me 40 to 50 hours a week for every business function combined is fair and reasonable, so all income generating hours must cover paying for the 40 to 50 hours - whether estimating hours, bookkeeping hours, or pruning hours.

 

[SilverBlue]

Two weeks on the job is nothing yet and many companies will only review your salary after 3 month although the company should give you a raise earlier if you prove your worth. But honestly $12.00 an hour is a pretty good starting wage here in Ontario for someone with some experience on the ground- especially outside the GTA. When do your benefits kick in?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What are total payroll costs for the employer? 30% is easy math for me so that would mean for you alone, there is $80 gone from the gross of that job. statr looking at the other costs, and going from gross to net/net looks much more modest.

You managed people before, put youself in his shoes. What can he really tell after 10 working days?

 

[ORclimber]

Originally posted by Jumper

I will have to get everyone's likes and dislikes straight in my mind, but dealing with two bosses at the same job site is enough to drive me nuts.

Sounds typical, every climber likes things a little different, every forman runs their job a little different. Every employer has different expectations of their employees. Can be frustrating, but usually gets better as the working relationship develops. You are likely being tested to some degree. Hope it works out for you.

 

[Jumper]

Originally posted by SilverBlue
Two weeks on the job is nothing yet and many companies will only review your salary after 3 month although the company should give you a raise earlier if you prove your worth. But honestly $12.00 an hour is a pretty good starting wage here in Ontario for someone with some experience on the ground- especially outside the GTA. When do your benefits kick in?

This job is in the GTA (I moved here 1 July) and I have declined all benefits as I am covered elsewhere (they were available immediately, but would have been $12 a week out of my pocket). And things are more expensive here for eg my vehicle insurance policy jumped from $88 to $152 per month for no other reason than I moved from a K(Ottawa) to a M(Metro Toronto) postal code.

I was earning $12 at one point in Ottawa a year ago and not involved at all in pruning anything, strictly driver/groundguy. I saw another fellow employee be told to leave after refusing to climb a crabapple tree to prune it unless he got a raise to $12 from $10 on the spot (he had been there over six months) so I am well aware of the repercussions of inopportune demands

I have relooked at my statement of job responsibilities, and what I have been expected to do to date is somewhat out of whack with the printed word.

I agree 10 days is a little short and will stick this one out. Think of the workout I am getting and some people have to pay to go to the gym!

 

[Jumper]

Given the specifics of the form Brian, I highly doubt it was written up by the company secretary. I read it carefully and acknowledged it with my signature, actually the first time in a long time someone has taken the time to explain in most concrete terms what is expected of one.

Sorry you seem to be having such a bad day; this is not the first time you have vented your spleen at people here, treeman82 comes immediately to mind.

As for employers, number one went bankrupt, taking me with him . I still have not received my tax forms or vacation pay for last year. Number 2 was just plain abusive, to people and to his dogs, the latter for me a true barometer of a person's character. Number three I have just finished dealing with via the small claims court route; at least I have my money after ten plus months of arguement, but there are court costs, mail costs etc that I am still out, which amount to over $75. And number 4 promised the world, then decided he needed another arborist on staff and could only afford me two days a week, after I had waited all winter. I do not know of too many people that would be willing to be available on one day notice only two days a week but I did it, and it worked out OK for us all. So if I appear a little jaded as a result of my dealings with these people I think I am within my rights.

Yes quitting is always a possibilty but what would that prove at this point? I tried to put light in the current situation, I am outdoors, active and learning new things.

I do not want a government job, which is precisely the reason I have sold my house in the national capital and paid to move myself to an area with greater opportunities in a wider variety of endeavors. The Kabul deal is within the realm of private enterprise, though it does involve direct support to government agencies.

You yourself were ill last spring, and I and many others wished you well. I have been extremely ill, but am on the rebound while also trying to deal with the terminal illness of an immediate family member. So if I appear less than the rosy cheery person you want me to be there it be.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Sounds like you are expecting an awful lot of yourself as well as others. I can relate. I'm the most demanding person I know.

First, take it easier on yourself and others. You are not going to get canned for getting a bit behind grounding for 2 climbers. Most climbers are appreciative of groundmen who can fill a saw without dumping gas all over it and get it secured to his rope so it doesn't fall from 30' as he pulls it up.

You are the new guy and the boss obviously needs competent help. He's probably quite thankful that you can manage to trim hedges, but would send his more experienced help if he could. If you start complaining about the hedges too much and talking about needing more money after two weeks, it will not sit well with the boss. Give him a chance to see what you can be worth to the company. If you are as valuable as you claim, he will be offering you more money soon to keep from losing you.

Remember, a hotshot who can knock out a big job easily isn't worth as much as the guy who shows up every day and becomes an integral part of the team. Become someone who the boss depends on, someone who makes him money every day, and things will progress from there. Don't expect him to think you are God's gift to his company after 2 weeks. He was making a living before you got there and can make a living without you. Three months from now he may have a different opinion.

That's about as well put as anybody can get it. I second that.

 

[Jumper]

I never disputed this either, but the thread went rapidly downhill from "most climbers are appreciative......" In any event the whole topic is closed as I have moved on to something more lucrative and will shortly be overseas for up to a year.

 

[jimmyq]

I pull in $40 to $50 an hour for consult/pruning work as a part time thing in addition to my full time job at a retail/wholesale nursery. If you can't make a great wage working for someone else, buy a truck, some snappy business cards, get a notepad and go in to business for yourself perhaps. I get away with light to medium trimming, leaving the remains in clear plastic bags for the garbage guy to come get and I do this out of the trunk of my Impala. I am soon going to go to 3 days a week at the nursery, 3 days a week at my own thing and a day off, it ain't too tough if you know your stuff and can do a bit of PR work. You say you can get by sitting on your duff at home, so why worry about the wages?

 

[dbeck]

pruning from the top of a ladder is dangerous to begin w/, someone should always be there to anchor the ladder.

keep your equipment straight on the ground(ropes saws etc.) Don't leave gear under a climber, announce when you go under the climber and don't be afraid to let them know when you are getting bogged down w/ debris and that it will be a minute until you can get things cleared up. Any person should understand that and allow you to catch up. Learning the climber's wants and needs will come...our ground guy takes care of three climbers at times w/o trouble.
Wages? everybody wants more money.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

dbeck - I like your last reply.

The previous climber that I subcontracted to, always dropped too much crud at one time.

He knew I liked to clean up in between to keep the area safe, and make detangling the mess less of an issue.

The guy was just in a hurry to get the tree down, so he could get paid and get out of there.

The man I use now, pauses and lets us catch up every now and again.

This new guy even takes the time at several intervals in the job, to show me different techniques.