New to the forums and got a question for the experts!

[Eddie L]

Hi all,

Does anyone know how bundles of timber is secured while in transportation or storage? Are they tied up using some form of wire rope or chain? What's better? Where would I buy some?

Thank you!

 

[Sagetown]

To begin with, I'm no expert. When you say timber, you mean logs 8 feet long or longer? Or are you bundling firewood? A loaded logging truck usually has side stakes and log chains with chain tensioners to hold the load in place.

 

[Eddie L]

Hi Sagetown,

Yeah I mean logs of 8 feet or longer. I have seen pictures of people using cranes to move huge bundles of log that is strapped tightly together with some sort of wire.

I'm a market researcher trying to understand how often logging companies use wire rope to tie up their timber and who has them for sale. I was told by someone that roughly only 10% of the American forestry sector tie up their timber, while 90% just leave them stacked without tying them up. And I have seen pictures of people transporting logs in trucks with side stakes and chains like you said, do you think that is what most people do?

Thanks

 

[Sagetown]

Yep; they'll use the easiest way to get by safely. A steel banding machine could possibly be what ties them into bundles. Don't know if they make bands that strong though.

 

[Eddie L]

Thanks again Sagetown, this is good to know!

Now, suppose I really want to buy some of those wires that ties log bundles together, does anyone here know of a distributor that I can contact? Or maybe any suggestion as to where I might start looking?

 

[slowp]

They're called binders. They are a steel cable with chain on the ends and a (I don't know the name of the parts)with a ratchety thing on the end of one. They use a cheater bar on the end of the ratchety thing. If the driver is wise, he/she will drive a ways and stop and tighten up the binders because the logs will settle. They usually run 3 per load and have to have all logs secured or covered by one binder.

They'll coil up the cable and throw them over the load, so you want to be out of the way when in the loading area. There is a difference, in the Okanogan area, they loader operator would pick up the binders with his machine and place them over the load. They all said this helped lessen injuries.

I'd guess you can purchase them from places that sell rigging or even trucking equipment places. And no, the stacks at mills are not bound by anything.

 

[treeslayer2003]

we use 4" nylon straps now on the trucks. cable [wire rope] is used on the skidder winch.
I have never seen logs tied up at a mill.

 

[slowp]

 

[treeslayer2003]

 

[northmanlogging]

The cable bit is called the wrapper, the ratchety thing is called a Binder... And its generally a cam action, although they sell a type that is ratchet action, you tend to see those more on equipment movers though. There is however no reason not to use them on a log truck other then convenience.

Any rigging supply type shop should be able to make a set up, the cable is attached to the chain with a simple swaged eye through the last link of chain, Some outfits are using synthetic wrappers now since they are lighter, but essentially the same thing.

The hay rack trucks you see on the east coast tend to use the nylon strap thing.

Also the load on west coast trucks is secured by its weight alone, the bunks (the big fork looking thingys) have a ridge welded on the cross member that will bite into the bottom logs to prevent them form sliding around.

The wrappers serve a dual purpose of keeping the top logs in place and holding the entire load together so the bunks can do they're job.

The only time the logs are secured is when in transport, the rest of the time you just kinda hope they don't start moving... which happens, they just don't usually go very far or cause much damage... usually....

 

[slowp]

Ahhh, always learning. I've heard them called binders and wrappers but never figured out that those were different parts. The colored plastic looking ones that nobody around here uses, but I see around Longview must be the synthetic ones? Do they come in pastel colors?

 

[northmanlogging]

Meh probably... I've only seen em in LW

 

[madhatte]

Just gave all the binders we had to the PW shop. They're used for securing equipment to trailers as well, which is why we had them. Now we don't have any equipment so we don't need any binders.

 

[Gologit]

Ahhh, always learning. I've heard them called binders and wrappers but never figured out that those were different parts. The colored plastic looking ones that nobody around here uses, but I see around Longview must be the synthetic ones? Do they come in pastel colors?

We tried the synthetic wrappers but we didn't have much luck with them. We were told not to let the drivers really reef down on them when they're tightening like they do with cable wrappers. We were told that too much force would deform or break them. That didn't work well.
Unlike Washington and Oregon we can haul above the stakes as far 14 feet high if the logs are well saddled. (I think the rule is that one third of the log, by diameter, must be firmly saddled through three quarters of it's length) The drivers tend to really pull down hard on the binders with a cheater to keep the wrappers tight. And they should.

 

[Eddie L]

Thank you everyone for the responses, and northmanlogging for the detailed explanation!

I got one more question. I'm located along the west coast in BC, Canada. Sometimes I see people store their logs in the water. Is that common in the US? Any special methods of keeping them together if I choose to store them in water?

 

[madhatte]

Is that common in the US? Any special methods of keeping them together if I choose to store them in water?

This should help to answer that question.

(weird that the link broke; it's just Wikipedia)

 

[paccity]

seen where they bound loads when they off load in to the bays and such then join them together for large rafts.

 

[northmanlogging]

for water storage there is usually a set of logs called the boom, that are all chained together, its still used locally here in Everett and Tacoma, although its getting rarer. The saw logs just sort of float around in the middle... at one time there was pretty good business picking up logs that escaped during a storm... the weather guessers have gotten better and the log rafts have gotten pretty rare.

Used to be these massive cigar shaped booms that would be towed all the way to california from as far away as Alaska and everywhere in between, Trains and Freeways put an end to that one, can't remember the name of em. They where all bound together with cable.

For the trucks that off load into the water (pretty much off road rigs only these days) they have trip stake bunks and leave the load bound so a tractor can shove it off into the water, lots of guys got killed pulling they're wrappers back in the day. So most times now they make you wait until the loader has it secured or until they are in the water, not sure who has the job of retrieving the wrappers in the water... those are generally large company shows anyway... Hel I'm not even sure you're going to see that kind of thing in the states anyway, mostly a victoria island thing or parts of alaska maybe.

 

[Eddie L]

Hi madhatte, I get an error from your link. Could you link it for me again?

Thanks again northmanlogging for the detailed explanation, it really helps me out!

 

[Gologit]

Used to be these massive cigar shaped booms that would be towed all the way to california from as far away as Alaska and everywhere in between, Trains and Freeways put an end to that one, can't remember the name of em. They where all bound together with cable.

Benson rafts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benson_raft