hey there i am new to the site...i have been working for a few landscapers over the years full time, and landscaping on the side, it seems to me the ones that make the money are also in the tree biz...now i plan on going out of my own next year and was wondering if there were any classes or schools i cld attend this winter in the philadelpia area so that next year i can add tree services as one of the things i do...i wld like to learn how to climb and also how to properly trim, cut down, shape trees...thanks for the help
newbeeee question
- Thread starter rfed32
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Welcome to the site and the world of trees.
There are classes held usually every fall down at the Morris Arboretum. They have different courses from basic climbing (start here) to more advanced climbing techniques. If you do not have a reliable, trusted source in the tree industry who can show you the 'ropes', then you should look up one of these courses. There are also some books that will help with your understanding and knowledge of climbing and general tree care operations. "The Tree Climbers' Companion" is one that I've insisted people need to buy. It's a very dangerous and demanding profession, even for those of us that have been doing it for quite some time. The wrong move / method can cause you to be very seriously dead. You'll get more responses on here that are similar to what I'm saying, just make sure you learn what you're doing before sinking tons (and I do mean tons) of money into gear and everything else. Start with a basic setup, master the climbing and the tree care techniques, then move on to more things. It takes a lot of time to become proficient at it, but it can happen. Find someone who's willing to teach you (courses, well experienced friend, highly intelligent and well mannered monkey, etc.).
There are classes held usually every fall down at the Morris Arboretum. They have different courses from basic climbing (start here) to more advanced climbing techniques. If you do not have a reliable, trusted source in the tree industry who can show you the 'ropes', then you should look up one of these courses. There are also some books that will help with your understanding and knowledge of climbing and general tree care operations. "The Tree Climbers' Companion" is one that I've insisted people need to buy. It's a very dangerous and demanding profession, even for those of us that have been doing it for quite some time. The wrong move / method can cause you to be very seriously dead. You'll get more responses on here that are similar to what I'm saying, just make sure you learn what you're doing before sinking tons (and I do mean tons) of money into gear and everything else. Start with a basic setup, master the climbing and the tree care techniques, then move on to more things. It takes a lot of time to become proficient at it, but it can happen. Find someone who's willing to teach you (courses, well experienced friend, highly intelligent and well mannered monkey, etc.).
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SINGLE-JACK
ArboristSite Guru
Penn State offers a climbing class; 10/5-9:
http://chester.extension.psu.edu/Horticulture/2009_Tree_Climbing_Brochure.pdf
BTW, WELCOME!
What area of Philly are you in? Another good source is to check out the Eastern Climbing Competition in May. You'll see some interesting stuff along with a number of different techniques all to accomplish the same tasks.
md_tree_dood
ArboristSite Operative
I'll be the first to say it. You will not be able to "do tree work" in a year. Even if you worked as an arborist every day for a year as a full time job, you woudn't be ready to do tree work in a year.
Please don't get killed or kill anyone else in the process of trying to make money
That being said, that Penn State class looks pretty cool and that seems to be a really good price too.
Please don't get killed or kill anyone else in the process of trying to make money
That being said, that Penn State class looks pretty cool and that seems to be a really good price too.
Been there, still trying to do that...
I have been doing a multitude of services for many years now. It's not a good plan. Unless you are making enough money to fund a full effort, stay away from the tree work. Reasons:
1. If you are going to be doing the work yourself, the specialized equipment necessary to be competitive will be sitting around unused a good part of the time. This is real expensive for high priced items like chippers, grapple trucks, bucket trucks, etc. You take the time to go do tree work, landscaping equipment sits idle... You go take care of a landscaping project, then the tree equipment once again... sits idle. This gets expensive.
2. Unless you are pretty good at managing people, it will be very difficult to keep employees capable of humping logs all of one day, and then exercising the necessary finesse to plant flowers or lay bricks the next day. Put the guys that are good at running lawn equipment on the end of a chainsaw, and you will be sharpening a lot of chains. If they are used to mowing grass, they will quit when you ask them to tote 80-150lb logs all day long (or worse, they will just. go ..slow...all...day....long).
While it is easy for nearly any ambitious, dedicated business owner to acquire the skills to do many jobs (that's me!), it is damn difficult to find employees with the same set of talents (this is my biggest failing). You are much better off if you can get specialized people for each task. This predicates having enough work to keep employees for each specialized function working full time.
3. It doesn't sound like you have much experience in tree work. It is VERY hard work, it's dirty, and it's dangerous. Workers compensation expense is out of sight ($$$), particularly for a start up company. Experienced help that will actually come to work predictably is difficult to find. The good ones are already working for a better company than yours, or they are working for themselves, doing what they like to do best.
4. Your original post sounds like your primary motivation is to make good money. Take a good look at most of the tree services that you see driving down the road. Go to the local log disposal site and look at the kind of equipment that dumps there. How many of them look like they're rich? While there are some companies that do quite well, most of us are struggling just to get by.
My suggestion: If you want to work for yourself, form a business plan that makes money at what you know BEST, or at least plan on making a living at what you LIKE best. When you find that you are rolling in the dough, your company is growing by leaps and bounds, and you have the capital to invest in a new division/PITA: go for it! Until then, I predict increased headaches from trying to do something that you are ill prepared to start.
[In my experience, landscapers and lawn workers generally make poor tree crew members. Conversely, the tree workers don't seem to do very well in lawn maintenance and landscaping either. I've been doing both for over 25 years, and I still haven't mastered the trick of managing people into being both good at tree work and good at landscaping and grounds maintenance. So...I do poorly at two trades rather than well at just one. I don't know of any companies in my area that do well at both, either. Oddly, my tree climbers invariably make pretty good tractor operators... go figure.]
I have been doing a multitude of services for many years now. It's not a good plan. Unless you are making enough money to fund a full effort, stay away from the tree work. Reasons:
1. If you are going to be doing the work yourself, the specialized equipment necessary to be competitive will be sitting around unused a good part of the time. This is real expensive for high priced items like chippers, grapple trucks, bucket trucks, etc. You take the time to go do tree work, landscaping equipment sits idle... You go take care of a landscaping project, then the tree equipment once again... sits idle. This gets expensive.
2. Unless you are pretty good at managing people, it will be very difficult to keep employees capable of humping logs all of one day, and then exercising the necessary finesse to plant flowers or lay bricks the next day. Put the guys that are good at running lawn equipment on the end of a chainsaw, and you will be sharpening a lot of chains. If they are used to mowing grass, they will quit when you ask them to tote 80-150lb logs all day long (or worse, they will just. go ..slow...all...day....long).
While it is easy for nearly any ambitious, dedicated business owner to acquire the skills to do many jobs (that's me!), it is damn difficult to find employees with the same set of talents (this is my biggest failing). You are much better off if you can get specialized people for each task. This predicates having enough work to keep employees for each specialized function working full time.
3. It doesn't sound like you have much experience in tree work. It is VERY hard work, it's dirty, and it's dangerous. Workers compensation expense is out of sight ($$$), particularly for a start up company. Experienced help that will actually come to work predictably is difficult to find. The good ones are already working for a better company than yours, or they are working for themselves, doing what they like to do best.
4. Your original post sounds like your primary motivation is to make good money. Take a good look at most of the tree services that you see driving down the road. Go to the local log disposal site and look at the kind of equipment that dumps there. How many of them look like they're rich? While there are some companies that do quite well, most of us are struggling just to get by.
My suggestion: If you want to work for yourself, form a business plan that makes money at what you know BEST, or at least plan on making a living at what you LIKE best. When you find that you are rolling in the dough, your company is growing by leaps and bounds, and you have the capital to invest in a new division/PITA: go for it! Until then, I predict increased headaches from trying to do something that you are ill prepared to start.
[In my experience, landscapers and lawn workers generally make poor tree crew members. Conversely, the tree workers don't seem to do very well in lawn maintenance and landscaping either. I've been doing both for over 25 years, and I still haven't mastered the trick of managing people into being both good at tree work and good at landscaping and grounds maintenance. So...I do poorly at two trades rather than well at just one. I don't know of any companies in my area that do well at both, either. Oddly, my tree climbers invariably make pretty good tractor operators... go figure.]
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Those are all very good points. My personal feelings, since I started my professional career in landscaping and then went to tree care, is that a lot of landscapers take on 'minor' tree care jobs to retain their customers. The key here is knowing what your limitations are and not being afraid to personally turn down the work. If you want to be able to offer a service that is beyond your capabilities, then I suggest looking at tree companies that you can develop a relationship with. Then you can sub-out the work to them. This will also give you an opportunity to learn from their climbers. Depending on your area, I can recommend some companies that might fit you. The hardest part is finding a quality tree care company that will not compromise the relationships you establish with your clients.
bruce6670
ArboristSite Operative
Why not try working part time for a reputable tree service for a while to learn and to see what is involved.
You will make more money in the long run if you acquire the proper skills before you jump in over your head.It will be hard to learn to climb while also trying to teach your help to run the ground.
Good luck.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
:agree2:
:agree2:
Disagree.
If you have followed steps 1 and 2 then there is nothing to stop you doing small jobs with minimal kit to "get your feet wet". Note I say after the first 2 steps. So do get trained and do get some experience.
Best of luck whatever you decide.
