newbie wants to climb

[ntsarborist]

just want a few opinions on this to see what everybody thinks. i got this new kid working for me he is 21 and just hired him january. he has a few years of experience on ground and with the saws and it shows. ive only had 4 jobs he has worked on since january. me and him were sitting in my office talkng and watching the race and drinking a few beers yesterday. he asked me if i could teach him to climb how to do rigging because he wants to move up the ladder and get off of ground. i told him the next warm day we get i will think about it. grab a set of spikes a saddle and a rope and start climbing and thats the only way to learn i told him. i told him it will take awhile to learn everything and it will be about a year before i would let him climb on a job and he says he doesnt care. nobody has ever asked for me to teach them to climb. what does everybody think i should do?

 

[Raymond]

Been awhile but I get this myself. Usually it's by a groundman that's still learning which end of a limb to grab to drag out to the road. Not saying your groundman is like this but the ones asking me are just looking for an easier job...thinking climbing is easier than being a brush bunny.

When I do have someone who want to learn and I think he's ready and we have the time. I give him the opportunity to run up to the top of a tree that we're planning to notch and drop and set the rope.

But I don't have him tie it, just set it, bringing both ends to the ground so I can tie a running bowline.

You can see what kind of potential he has by just doing that.

 

[LTREES]

I'd find a big tree and show him how to throw a rope. Let him hip thrust up to the limb and tell him to stand up on it. (no spikes) When he gets comfortable with that allow him to start setting other ropes and go to the top. IMHO I wouldn't put him in spikes until he started to show he was able to get to the top off a rope. I think that would build up his strenght and nerve.

LT...

 

[Soilarch]

Can someone who has never climbed chime in?

That last little statement about building nerve caught me attention.

I never thought heights bothered me...until I was working on a job where I needed to walk along the top edge of a cinder block/brick 12ft up!!! (these were "mexican" cinder blocks and probably 5" wide) I realize this in nothing to most construction-types...and laughable to steelworkers.

I learned real quick that standing on a ledge 50ft up and actually working and moving around 20ft up are two entirely different things.

Your young guy might need the same lesson I needed...so give him a little time if he needs it to gradually get the wobble out of knees.

 

[outofmytree]

It is something I hear from time to time. I would definatley set the line myself early on. Let him hip thrust and learn just how much work that is. I suggest you turn your newbies loose on take downs as the skid marks they make while boot scooting up a trunk look ugly afterwards!

 

[YankeeinSC]

Over the past year I've been teaching my almost adult boys to climb. We started with rappelling down a retaining wall in the yard with a line secured to a tree stump using a figure 8 descender. I wanted to build their confidence in the harness and give them multiple attempts at connecting caribiners and the 8. Throughout their development I’ve made them tie several different knots over and over (bowline, running bowline, double fisherman and a few other tie in knots, the VT & distel and a few mid line knots).

Then we worked with spikes and a flip line for setting falling ropes and a few very simple limb cuts. When I had a chance to introduce them to the closed system I use, they had both had some experience being more than a few feet up, so the transition to just the climb line was almost easy for them. I let a buddy take each of them all the way to the canopy and work on some basic rules for limb tie in choices, limb bypass with the climb line while on the lanyard and some good rules for weight on limbs, 3 points of contact etc.. As a rule I never let them retie once off the ground. Their tie in knots and the VT always gets inspected by me before they go up.

In that initial DRT learning time frame, we got a job that involved trimming an older house out of a yard that hadn’t been maintained in 30 years. All of the trees were healthy and the work fairly low (and the home owner very agreeable and not in a hurry) so it was the perfect job to learn a few more advanced techniques like limb walking, positioning within the tree, setting some rigging lines, blocks, line interaction management etc. Now we’re working on a broader understanding of limb weight estimation, smart and safe rigging, zip line use multiple tie in points and redirects.

The boys are developing into fantastic climbers. They have strength and energy I only wish I had. I’ve enjoyed taking them one at a time to jobs that are small enough where I can drag brush and they can climb. I’ve kept them away from hazard trees and power lines and have been paying them what I would earn if I were climbing. I don’t let them section trees down with the bigger saws yet, but that day is coming soon. It has been highly rewarding and has built a lot of respect and trust between myself and these young men.

I’d say either take him up or send him to a climb course!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm not a big fan of throwing a guy off the deep end, so to speak, and trying to make him climb a big tree. I'll start them in crabapples and small Norway maples. Easy things that they have no need to find their nerve before learning to trust the gear.

Simple saddle with a bo'lin tied to the center D, and a taught-line hitch. Simple, low and slow.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I agree with JPS small strong easily climbed trees first. Off a rope without a chainsaw. Just pruning with a handsaw. Keep it simple till they get more experience..... Mike

 

[Justice]

I agree with Mike and JPS. Trusting your gear is everything. Hand saw after a while.
When trying higher, use a pulley of another line to run his line through in case he freezes. You will be able to lower him without doing a rescue climb.

Make him read the accidents thread on here so he know's what can happen.

No spikes either

 

[teamtree]

Send him down my way. We will teach him.

Hell, if you have someone willing to learn...give him a chance. Don't push him but encourage him to learn and practice. Give him some incentives.

I agree on the spikes...let him see how it is without spikes first...then give him spikes.

 

[fishercat]

sounds like he is a good reliable employee.

you should feel blessed to have him and teaching him to climb sounds like the least you could do for him.

he sounds kind of like me,willing to work hard but likes a challenge and something to stimulate his mind.i would take advantage of this if i were you.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Throw him up a good size tree to start him out. If he freezes tell him to get down or your leaving him. I've done this to buddy's before while hunting, except they were free climbing and hanging on to the side of the tree scared to death after they kick out at 15 feet with 7 more to go. I tell them get a spike in or ride it down, mosly they take a ride because they can't let go of the death grip they have on the tree to get the spike angle. It's a good initiation, funny as all heck, and gives them something to think about.

We tied one of my bud's in with a rope and saddle once. It was his first time bowhunting and he had never been in the woods after dark. Long story short, he get's scared as the sun is going down, rappels down until he gets hung up somehow, cuts the rope with his broadhead (and his hand in the process), then hikes 1 mile down the road to the nearest house. We found him in tears just as his mom was comming to pick him up. That was priceless.

Show him how to tie in and get him airborne, the rest will come as you work with him.

 

[pdqdl]

All you guys that want to test the newbie before providing training are either bullies or just "got no sense". Nails, I am surprised at you.

If you have an aspiring, hard working assistant, you provide training, not abuse. Teach the basics; make them learn rope and cutting techniques before you ever put them in a tree. Teach them WHAT to cut, before you let them into a tree to figure it out on their own.

As others have pointed out, start small, and work your way up to bigger stuff. It is asinine to put a newbie up high in a tree to perform some trivial task just to see if they have the necessary desire or absence of fear. All you will do is create resentment, which will damage an otherwise good relationship.

I have tried to take several aspiring climbers, and I told them they couldn't learn climbing with spikes from me until they would learn to work without them. So far, none of my learner-trainees has graduated to spikes yet; they tire of the hard work and the insecurity of just trusting the equipment. It doesn't take a big tree to find out if they have what it takes.

If they haven't the patience to learn the trade, why bother teaching them to climb?

 

[BC WetCoast]

Many tree climbers come originally from a rock climbing background. I would encourage him to practice on a climbing wall (assuming there is one around) after work or on weekends. That way, he will get get used to heights, trust the rope, and learn to move smoothly and lightly.

 

[clearance]

I learned to climb next to high voltage. With spurs of course, just get up there and hang a rope so we could pull it over. With an 020 from the start, but I had years of saw experience first. Don't rush anyone, or have them work beyond thier ablities. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[ntsarborist]

thanks for all the tips and advice. ive never been asked before in the 11 years been in buisness and i thought myself to climb about 13 years ago so i didnt know how i should tackle that one with him. thanks again for the help. any more advice would be appreciated.