Next Mill

[BobL]

In 2006 I made this:

In 2007 it was this;

And this - I guess you are sick of seeing this yet again.

In 2008 BIL was upgraded to this

In 2009 BIL got another upgrade to this

Plus I made this

Well it's nearly 3 months into 2010 and the alaskan CS mill building bug has hit again and I'm looking for ideas. A couple of constraints - it has to be small enough to be able to be picked up and carried or wheeled by me 40 yards down a narrow pathway (2'6" wide) to the back of my place where my shop is. I'm also probably largely going to stick to scraps and pieces of ally and steel I already have in my shed. For example I have a real nice set of spare 54" ally rails from the original BIL mill, but I will buy any material if the idea warrants it. For powerheads I have a 441, 066, 076 and 880. I was thinking about something that maybe puts the 076 back into service - I really like using that powerhead. I have bars from 20 to 60", but am also considering a double ender.

What I'm really looking for at this stage is thoughts on "what bugs you about alaskan/CS mills that you have used and how do you think they can be improved"?

I have a few ideas but I'm just casting the net and seeing what comes up.

Progress will be slow because I will be spending more than 4 months away from home this year.

Cheers

 

[splitpost]

I'me sure Bob whatever you build will be an engineering marvel ,can't wait to see what you come up with

 

[BobL]

I'me sure Bob whatever you build will be an engineering marvel ,can't wait to see what you come up with

Thanks SP. I'm surprised no one has posted any ideas though. Surely our mills are not all perfect?

 

[Brmorgan]

Bob, I ran across this photo in another thread:

It's apparently a firefighting demolition saw or something. I thought that grooving the bar like that might be useful for controlling the depth of cut on a Mini-Mill style setup - it would be easy to mark the depth on the bar too. I'd probably go for two ~5/16" grooves rather than one wider one, it would be much easier to keep stable.

 

[Daninvan]

Well, I know my mill is far from perfect, but I think that your mill is pretty close to the ultimate for most of the rest of us! So I see things on your mill (use of Al rather than steel, better oiler, better nose clamp, exhaust redirection, etc) that I need to do on mine. It's hard to envisage steps beyond that!

When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!)

For me, some small things are that the chain must be able to be sharpened, tightened, and taken on/off without making any adjustments to the mill itself. It would be very handy if the damn thing would stand on its own so I could more easily sharpen the chain on top of the log I was cutting without the thing moving all over the place as I filed it.

Dan

 

[Brmorgan]

I've learned to file my ripping chains from the outside-in if I need to, so I don't have to take the saw off the mill to sharpen anymore no matter what. It's harder to do with chisel chain than semi though, and doesn't do the file's life expectancy any favors, but actually can give a bit cleaner edge.

 

[AaronB]

Anything you can do to make pushing easier? Rollers, etc.

You should just make your own bandsaw mill.

 

[gemniii]

<snip>
When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!) <snip>

For me the biggest part of speeding the process up is getting everything hauled out and the first cut set up.
If I've got the mill set up for a wide cut it's easier to sharpen on the mill.

 

[huskyhank]

Quick disconnect of mill from the saw.

Faster, easier, simpler depth of cut adjustments.

Nose end chain tensioner.

Roller nose (not sprocket) with internal lubrication attachment.

Light weight, fast attaching and adjusting guide plank/beam.

Mill on a beam or straddle/drop over. (imagine a very very long saw horse over a log with a saw riding on a guide on/under the saw horse)

 

[BobL]

Well, I know my mill is far from perfect, but I think that your mill is pretty close to the ultimate for most of the rest of us! So I see things on your mill (use of Al rather than steel, better oiler, better nose clamp, exhaust redirection, etc) that I need to do on mine. It's hard to envisage steps beyond that!

Sure, but anything you can envisage, even bordering on the whacky, is often a starting point of consideration.

When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!)

I agree absolutely 100%

For me, some small things are that the chain must be able to be sharpened, tightened, and taken on/off without making any adjustments to the mill itself. It would be very handy if the damn thing would stand on its own so I could more easily sharpen the chain on top of the log I was cutting without the thing moving all over the place as I filed it.

Twin inboard (and outboard) upright post mills like the GB, that can lay on their side and place the bar in a vertical orientation have a big advantage when sharpening.
Like this;

Even so I still clamp the mill to my workbench to stop it moving.

With my small alaskan with a single upright at each end of the mill I use two clamps like this and clamp onto a slab I partially move off the log.

Nevertheless something to think about for a new mill design - maybe a built in clamp of some kind?

 

[BobL]

Anything you can do to make pushing easier? Rollers, etc.

If the chain is sharpened correctly and the log is on a slope it should not be necessary to do much pushing.

If I thought rollers would make a difference I'd have them on now.
Rollermatic uses a full bed of rollers but that fixes the length of the bar that can be used on his mills.
Sperber made a variable roller length design back in the 1970's but it's a little clumsy.
Despite this I haven't given up on rollers and a rethink is always a good idea.

You should just make your own bandsaw mill.

I have thought about this many times but small bandsaws and Aussie hardwoods are a poor combination and would require the bandsaw to be a lot beefier than the smaller units you folk are using. I keep hearing specs like 4" wide blades and 30-40 horses - this is not something I could build in my back yard. I also don't have the space for the serious output of such a machine.

 

[BobL]

For me the biggest part of speeding the process up is getting everything hauled out and the first cut set up.
If I've got the mill set up for a wide cut it's easier to sharpen on the mill.

Yep agree, setting up takes a lot of time, it reminds me of setting up before exams at school, . . "ya gotta get yer Gonks set up just so"!

 

[BobL]

Quick disconnect of mill from the saw.

Faster, easier, simpler depth of cut adjustments.

Nose end chain tensioner.

Roller nose (not sprocket) with internal lubrication attachment.

Light weight, fast attaching and adjusting guide plank/beam.

Mill on a beam or straddle/drop over. (imagine a very very long saw horse over a log with a saw riding on a guide on/under the saw horse)

Now we're talking - all excellent ideas - keep em coming.

Thanks for everyone chipping in on this.

 

[Kicker_92]

Thanks SP. I'm surprised no one has posted any ideas though. Surely our mills are not all perfect?

- I like the "clamp onto the bar" style, since it can go from bar to bar with little to no changes. I haven't tried a bolt on style, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.

- A third or fourth bar mount would be helpful on longer bars. IF you have two at each end, you could pre-stress the bar to eliminate any sag.

- Having a deeper platform with more crossbracing would reduce snipe at the beginning and end of the cuts withough guide rails. Extra bracing will reduce setup for narrow cuts by giving the saw soemthing to ride on.

- Bigger powerhead, if your going to be making the mill from scratch, why not a 250cc+ motor?


Oh, and that depth control on the saw posted is common for firefighting. it lets you cut though the roof or wall sheathing without cutting the structural members underneath,

 

[BobL]

- I like the "clamp onto the bar" style, since it can go from bar to bar with little to no changes. I haven't tried a bolt on style, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.

- A third or fourth bar mount would be helpful on longer bars. IF you have two at each end, you could pre-stress the bar to eliminate any sag.

- Having a deeper platform with more crossbracing would reduce snipe at the beginning and end of the cuts withough guide rails. Extra bracing will reduce setup for narrow cuts by giving the saw soemthing to ride on.

- Bigger powerhead, if your going to be making the mill from scratch, why not a 250cc+ motor?

Oh, and that depth control on the saw posted is common for firefighting. it lets you cut though the roof or wall sheathing without cutting the structural members underneath,

More good ideas - keep em coming!

I'd rep yas all but I have to spread it around.

 

[Justsaws]

Dust protection, collection and use.

2 stroke portable dust collector with the appropriate chutes, hoses and storage for collection off the saw into a container. I do not have one but as I can use all the waste from milling it is on my mind. It would also be nice to reduce the amount of air borne particulate in the working path. Something more specific than the tarp on the ground.

Noise reduction, yep huge mufflers since it rides on rails. That is my next project for the mill.

The use of water for bar lube. Time for some emulsion magic with canola oil, the branded stuff is to spendy.

That is where my thoughts are on milling these days. My set up is all primitive, steel(heavy) and involves the evil crawl(small trees on the ground) but it works for me so those are the "advancements" I am looking into.

 

[Brmorgan]

As far as dust collection goes, a good 12V pickup heater fan/blower would probably do pretty well, depending on the efficiency of the pickup and tubing. I've spooled them up fairly fast and they can move a lot of air, and as long as you don't go cutting noodles it won't clog up with just dust & small chips. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't withstand a saw's RPM though, so I'm not sure how to go about driving one.

Apart from that, there are quite a few small two-stroke leaf blowers that can be converted to vacuums with bags. One of those would do the job nicely, I'm thinking, but would add considerably more infrastructure.

 

[BobL]

Dust protection, collection and use.

2 stroke portable dust collector with the appropriate chutes, hoses and storage for collection off the saw into a container. I do not have one but as I can use all the waste from milling it is on my mind. It would also be nice to reduce the amount of air borne particulate in the working path. Something more specific than the tarp on the ground.

Very Interesting, My concern was mainly having to walk on/thru the sawdust and it constantly building up under my feet so the more of a log I milled, the more sawdust I had to walk over and the more I had to bend over to reach the log and the more I had to raise the log so I didn't have to bend over. This problem kinda disappeared with the 880 muffler mod that blows the sawdust out of the operators walking path.

Following on from a tarp on the ground I have thought about creating a catching dam around the log by placing a trap on the ground and then hooking 3 sides of the tarp up to a half circle of star pickets hammered into the ground around the operator's side of the log. One reason I haven't pursued this is that it could reduce the amount of air movement around the operator leaving the operator standing in more exhaust fumes than are necessary. However I might give this a go one day when there's a decent breeze about.

Noise reduction, yep huge mufflers since it rides on rails. That is my next project for the mill.

Good idea - and consistent with another idea I have for mill design.

The use of water for bar lube. Time for some emulsion magic with canola oil, the branded stuff is to spendy.

This was looked at in detail by a couple of us back in Oct of 2007.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=54307

Despite some initial promise and positives like a cool clean chain and bar, the water seemed to reduce the amount of oil that was sticking to the bar and chain and caused more (especially bar) wear. The main reason I got into water cooling was to reduce the resin build up on the chain and reduce engine load. Since using the 880 I have had no resin problems, probably because the 880 puts out a max oil flow of twice the that of the 076 (38 ml/min v 19 ml/min) and what I was perceiving as increased load due to resin building up was almost certainly me not sharpening properly. Now I normally run the 880 at max oil flow (38 ml/min) and have the Aux oiler running at about 20 ml/min. When the log gets wider or more resinous I up the aux oiler to about 40 ml/min and the resin does not build up.

That is where my thoughts are on milling these days. My set up is all primitive, steel(heavy) and involves the evil crawl(small trees on the ground) but it works for me so those are the "advancements" I am looking into.

Thanks for the input.

 

[huskyhank]

A real long bar, 72" perhaps that drops on the log like a guillotine.
It would cut noodles instead of end grain. Obviously the length of log to be cut would be limited by bar length. I think it would be fast.

 

[huskyhank]

Auxiliary fuel and bar oil tanks for making long cuts without refueling. It would involve hoses with threads to screw into the filler holes on the saw.

But then there is always the possibility of a motorcycle engine...........