No count tree!
- Thread starter NCTREE
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Treetom
ArboristSite Guru
Nice job, NCTREE. Do you have any pics of the crew roping down the limbs?
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
LOL, looks like a good job.
I'll give you the same constructive criticism I gave SOM though:
Tying in to the limb and not isolating it by going around the trunk is a no no. If for any reason the limb should fail you are going to want the next limb or fork to back it up. Also, it's not too hard for your climb line to roll out of a short stub. Not very likely here but it's still a bad habit. Tree climbing 101.
All in all, good job.
I'll give you the same constructive criticism I gave SOM though:
Tying in to the limb and not isolating it by going around the trunk is a no no. If for any reason the limb should fail you are going to want the next limb or fork to back it up. Also, it's not too hard for your climb line to roll out of a short stub. Not very likely here but it's still a bad habit. Tree climbing 101.
All in all, good job.
To much friction on a main stem, i need to turn and burn
You either rope or take pictures
mr. holden wood
ArboristSite Guru
I have yet to see an efficient climber who uses the main stem as a T.I.P. Way to much friction. That's a good central leader for a friction saver if you feel more comfortable being tied in around the spar.
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ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have come across an efficient climber who tore out the low friction limb he was crotched on and fell.
Unfortunately, he wasn't as efficient after that.
Friction can be managed without compromising safety....even minimized more than using a small limb, and still be tied around the main stem.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Isolating the limb you tie into is the most basic safety precaution climbers take. It is usually learned on day one. The loading forces are doubled on the limb therefore a climber that weighs 200# is actually placing a 400# load on the limb. No big deal if it is isolated around the trunk but on a solitary limb it can have catastrophic consequences.
As I understand it, you are a young climber in your 20's. Do yourself a favor and listen to some of the guys who have been around for a little while. There are reasons that we have industry standards. It's not just to hear ourselves talk.
mr. holden wood
ArboristSite Guru
I sensed this coming, I edited my comment right after I hit the post button. After looking at the pics posted I would have probably used my f/s instead of having it clipped to my belt like nctree. I have read a few posts about tying in around the main stem and it's not practical for the everyday climber. This is the commercial forum and it should be geared towards safety and PRODUCTION.
If both ends of rope are tied to harness, the load on stem will be 200LBS.
If one end tied to climber, and one to something else(tree), the load would be 400LBS. 200 on climber end, 200 on tree end, 400 on crotch.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
You are right, I stand corrected. However, it is still not a safe practice to climb on a limb that has not been isolated. There are shock factors to consider and even if the limb appears to be big enough and solid at the branch union it can have a tendency to roll out to where it is not as stable.
Hey, I'm just trying to share some knowledge I have learned with ya. If you're comfortable climbing like you do, rock on.
ddhlakebound
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tree md has got it right. Both legs are supporting the full weight of the climber (minus a bit of friction at the TIP), it does not matter if the running end goes back to the saddle, to another tree, down to a porty, or someones hand. (possible adjustments for rope angle).
Two legs = double the weight at the TIP, and the only way around it is to increase friction at the TIP, so the running end is supporting less. (like using a porty at the TIP, or taking wraps at the TIP).
Stay safe NCTREE...choosing a less than acceptable tip and not knowing the load it's supporting has turned out badly for others in the past.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yeah, I thought that was right. I was thinking of SRT anchor at the base of the tree. Any 2:1 system is going to put twice the load on the limb or what have you.
toddstreeservic
ArboristSite Guru
simple trim job heh?
ozarktreeman
ArboristSite Operative
That,s a shatty job.But nice work!
Actually, NCTree has the math correct.
A mass simply suspended from an overhead anchor (or limb - see Figure A) imparts that mass to the anchor, regardless of how may lines are used to attach it to the anchor (see Figure B). The benefit to multiple lines is that each line only carries a proportional amount of the load to the anchor point.
Moving the anchor, and turning the limb into a redirect, does change the loading (see Figure C). This is the loading typical of our SRT technique (with low anchor) and typical of most rigging systems controlled from the ground. It is important to see the difference because too many tree workers fail to think about the double-loading created by roping heavy wood out of the tree.
Sure... the rope can handle that 500# piece, and the anchor (porty) can handle that 500# piece, but can the pulley (limb) handle the 1000# load plus shock load?
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well at least we now know that he can count. Let's hope he figures out the math on tying in to a limb that has not been isolated...
Agreed...
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
As long as the rope stays in the crotch, ie does not ride out the smaller limb, you are OK with how he tied in. I do it all the time with 2-3 inch laterals.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Technically he has isolated his rope, it tends fair through the tree, just going through the TIP. Though i understand that you mean his TIP is not safe due to wood diameter he is on. I need to pick the nit that you are using isolate in the wrong context....along with disagreeing with his being unsafe in practice
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