OK.....I need to get to the bottom of the Stihl coil interchange.......

[jockeydeuce]

I know this has been covered in other threads, but with mixed messages. I pretty much have a handle on how most of the ignition and flywheel changes came about (definitely lots to absorb), but my main question is about the 1122 400 1314 coil used on the 046's a 066's with the poly flywheels.

I don't mean to call JacobJ out, but this is a quote from an old post on the subject.......

That technical bulletin ( 54.2000 ) doesn't list all of the modules and flywheels, only the most commonly used ones. There are actually 6 variants of 064 flywheels, and 9 variants of 066.

Bill- you are correct, you need the 0000 400 1300 universal module for your 1122 400 1204 flywheel.

You can also use the module from the 046 and 066 with the polymer flywheel- 1122 400 1314 with your 064 flywheel, I've done it with good results.

The 1122 400 1300 module works with the 1122 400 1201 or 1122 400 1203 ( use the "P" timing slot ) flywheels. That is the funky shaped ignition module that early 064 cases were molded for.

The 1122 400 1303 module for 064 is the same CDIC rev-limiter that matches the 1122 400 1307 CDIC module which came on "Red-Light" 066s. The only difference between the two modules is an extra wiring hook-up on the 066 1307 module for the red led.

You can convert your early 066 to use an 064 flywheel if you have the 1122 400 1203 064 flywheel with the dual timing slots. Use the "P" timing slot on the 064 flywheel and the universal ignition module ( 0000 400 1300 ) and an 064 starter to save some bulk on your 066.

The universal ignition that came stock on 028/038/024/early 026/034/early 036 will not work on the bigger saws. Nor will the modules from 026 and 036 saws that have the longer bodies with the square tops. Those will only work in the small saws as they have a self-advancing circuit.

Early 044 ignitions will not work on MS-440 saws with the 1128 400 1214 "Lightweight" flywheel. The older ignitions had a timing circuit which is not compatible with the newer flywheel. There is one ignition that will work on both 066 and 046 saws with the polymer flywheel, and the 440 saws with the lightweight flywheel, it is part number 0000 400 1305.

Now I thought I had read that the 1122 400 1314 ignition wouldn't work with any of the aluminum flywheeels like the 064 used, but in this old thread, Jacob is saying he's done it with good success. Jacob seems to be the guru on this, so I hope he chimes in.

I have a 1122 400 1314 ignition beside the universal 0000 400 1300 ignition and they look identical and the 1122 400 1314 will bolt right in where the universal coil will........What's the story??? Will the 1122 400 1314 ignition work in "non poly" applications or not????

 

[Jacob J.]

You don't mean to be calling me out, but you're calling me out...

Here's the deal. The ignitions for the polymer flywheel saws have a timing circuit in them that advances ignition timing at higher revs. You need to know this if you're going to use this ignition with an aluminum flywheel. Most of the coils on saws with the aluminum flywheels are dummy coils, or straight coils. They don't advance the ignition at higher revs. Some of the coils on aluminum flywheel saws (mostly smaller saws) actually retard the ignition timing at low revs to make starting easier.

Does this mean I'd install an ignition for a polymer flywheel saw on a homeowner's saw? no. I will do it on modified saws that are going into the hands of pro users.

 

[jockeydeuce]

You don't mean to be calling me out, but you're calling me out...

Here's the deal. The ignitions for the polymer flywheel saws have a timing circuit in them that advances ignition timing at higher revs. You need to know this if you're going to use this ignition with an aluminum flywheel. Most of the coils on saws with the aluminum flywheels are dummy coils, or straight coils. They don't advance the ignition at higher revs. Some of the coils on aluminum flywheel saws (mostly smaller saws) actually retard the ignition timing at low revs to make starting easier.

Does this mean I'd install an ignition for a polymer flywheel saw on a homeowner's saw? no. I will do it on modified saws that are going into the hands of pro users.

LOL....OK, I guess I was calling you out, but just didn't mean it in a bad way....I'm just trying to be informed and you seem to be really up on these!.

So what possible "bad things" could happen if running the 1122 400 1314 coil on an aluminum flywheel saw???? The obvious thing I can think of is "kickback" on a saw designed to have the retarded starting timing......What about at WOT??? Backfiring??....Or actual engine damage?

Also is that an ignition that can only be used on modded saws? I can see the extra advance being an advantage on a ported saw that's revving higher at WOT.

BTW....Thanks for the reply!

 

[Fish]

We know about you guys in the Northwest...........

I think he is trying to "ask" you out...........

You could go dutch for some "latte frapachinos" together....

 

[Jacob J.]

The saw isn't going to kickback or backfire. The polymer flywheel coils don't retard the timing for start-up. That's usually on smaller saws to make starting easier for Harry Homeowner.

The thing you have to be careful with when looking at retro-fitting an aluminum flywheel saw with one of the polymer flywheel coils is that it will advance ignition timing at high revs. The reason for the timing advance in the polymer flywheel I've heard from muckity mucks at Stihl is from the potential for the polymer flywheel to 'flex' at high speeds.

When you put one of the "dummy" coils (such as the universal module, 0000 400 1300) on a polymer flywheel saw, it will run and cut, it just won't seem as crisp as a normal saw. I personally don't like the feel of an 046 when it has the dummy coil.

 

[Jacob J.]

We know about you guys in the Northwest...........

I think he is trying to "ask" you out...........

You could go dutch for some "latte frapachinos" together....

lol...I was wondering why my pants are so tight.

 

[jockeydeuce]

We know about you guys in the Northwest...........

I think he is trying to "ask" you out...........

You could go dutch for some "latte frapachinos" together....

Fish.....You jealous little devil.....Are you asking me out???:blush:

 

[Fish]

lol...I was wondering why my pants are so tight.

That could work on a couple of levels...........

 

[Fish]

No coil discounts to my boyfriends.....

 

[jockeydeuce]

The thing you have to be careful with when looking at retro-fitting an aluminum flywheel saw with one of the polymer flywheel coils is that it will advance ignition timing at high revs. .

OK....So will it advance to the point of pre-ignition under load or is it just a case of trial and error on each saw if a guy wants to try it???

Actually part of the reason for my question, is that I'm getting so many extra coils from parts saws, that I just wanted to confirm whether it's a big deal to interchange or if I should keep careful track of what they came out of (Apparently I better tag them all).....They look identical and have no numbers on them.

 

[Jacob J.]

OK....So will it advance to the point of pre-ignition under load or is it just a case of trial and error on each saw if a guy wants to try it???

Actually part of the reason for my question, is that I'm getting so many extra coils from parts saws, that I just wanted to confirm whether it's a big deal to interchange or if I should keep careful track of what they came out of (Apparently I better tag them all).....They look identical and have no numbers on them.

Definitely tag them all. The best policy is to keep each original flywheel with its respective coil. As coils age, their timing and electronics can be altered or changed, especially if they're been run hard in a demanding environment. I've seen two different universal modules have slightly different timing due to one being excessively abused in a hot climate.

I've seen the CDIC rev-limited modules go from governing a saw at 12.5k down to 10k just on the basis of age and wear and tear.

In the case of the polymer flywheel coil on an aluminum flywheel saw, it's more trial and error than anything and that's why I don't recommend it to most people.

 

[jockeydeuce]

Definitely tag them all. The best policy is to keep each original flywheel with its respective coil. As coils age, their timing and electronics can be altered or changed, especially if they're been run hard in a demanding environment. I've seen two different universal modules have slightly different timing due to one being excessively abused in a hot climate.

I've seen the CDIC rev-limited modules go from governing a saw at 1.25k down to 10k just on the basis of age and wear and tear.

In the case of the polymer flywheel coil on an aluminum flywheel saw, it's more trial and error than anything and that's why I don't recommend it to most people.

GOTCHA!!

Thanks!......I tried to rep ya, but I gotta spread it around first.

Have you ever tried that poly ignition in one of the smaller saws just for kicks??

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Anyone know if you can put a 660 crank in an old 066?

 

[Jacob J.]

Anyone know if you can put a 660 crank in an old 066?

Not unless you have a CNC machine and a lot of patience...

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Not unless you have a CNC machine and a lot of patience...

Well fook, no biggy

 

[ironman_gq]

So would putting an 046 coil in my 044 make any difference?

 

[Jacob J.]

So would putting an 046 coil in my 044 make any difference?

I wouldn't recommend it. It's possible to get the ignition timing too aggressive at high revs.

 

[Meadow Beaver]

Anyone ever put a 394 crank in an 066?

 

[wigglesworth]

JJ is that why you made mention of the "self advancing" coil in the 044 I got from you? As I took it, it would "self advance", much similar to the 046 coil. Am I correct in this thinking?

 

[ironman_gq]

I wouldn't recommend it. It's possible to get the ignition timing too aggressive at high revs.

Would that be a major problem with an 046 cylinder on my 044 and a little port work and muffler mod. I'm looking for more power and if a simple coil swap will help I'd like to try.