Other Climbing Toys

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've been fascinated by rope work for quite some time, and as i learned more about it in the trees, i looked with real awe at some of the other strategies and toys that similar disciplines have.

Learning what they were, how they were used sometomes has been a challenge; always enlightening and amazing at just what positive properties can be screeched out of the same tools we use (just about).

Stuff like this isn't at every flea market, i'm not a globe trotter like Tom; only have a few things; but each one amazingly brilliant in strength, simplicity and design. Each one of them challenging my imagination, as to just what the mind of man can construe over time. Each one giving me better respect and feel for what is going on in all rope work.

 

[NickfromWI]

I can't tell the size by looking at them, but they look like rappell/belay devices.

love
nick

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Well, it certainly took ya less time to figure it out than me!

When a knot works, or ID etc. it's all closed up; this i thinks reveals itself like open machinery.

In seeing things like this (with the hood up), i think we can see how other things might work, or still yet; what lil thing can jam the works,and when that can be good!

i think this strategy is clean simplicity, smooth paying out of the line and positive, non-spiraling braking-and even though might not be in the tree, there are lessons to be observed from this vantage point of seeing rope handled this way.

File size is a lil'large; but when i converted it to .gif; the quality of course dropped, but the file size was larger for my effort?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Ken, yur a wildman!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Dang, din't mean to throw my wait around;

Looking at your avatar i thinx you're lysdexic, so ya prolly belong to the AND, i mean DNA.........



Another, lil toy from another tribe; i think we already use kinda a form of this machinery in rope form. After all it too(rope) is a friction device as we use it, just as these shiny toys.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Ken,

You've got a Bachli plate there. Various spellings.

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/Belay/PlateBelayPages/PlateBelay601.html

When I first started rock climbing I used one. It is rigged more like a figure eight. You can use it like a Sticht plate too. The SP is another device all together.

Racks are nice but I think there are better tools for arbos. You're right, they don't put much of a twist into ropes which is a big plus. One big limitation is the way that the
friction varies depending on how much rope is below the rack. When there is a lot of rope, the weight will pull the bars together making more friction. If the climber starts to push rope into the bars they can start to accelerate and quickly get going too fast. Racks really require the pilot to stay alert and awake.

Tom

 

[Burnham]

Tom, others--
The great thing about the rack is that you can vary available friction on the fly without rerigging the device. The rappeller can easily spread the bars or compress them together to change friction on the fly, besides changing the number of bars in play. On a long drop, so more rope weight, rig with 5 or 6 bars, then as you descend and rope weight below the device decreases, just pop loose another bar or two to compensate. And the rope does not pull the bars together, in my experience, it's just the extra weight that exerts more braking action. Change the top bar to a hyperbar (one with an extra long leg and a small spur off at 90 degrees to the bar) and even more friction is available, and soft or hard lockoff is even simpler than with the regular configuration. Other advantages-- there is no device that is better at dissipating heat than a 6 bar rack, plus the zero twist it puts on the rope.

I do agree that there are better rap devices for tree work, if only because the full size 6 bar rack is so cumbersome to carry in the tree. CMI makes a small U-framed 4 bar rack that might be the better choice if a rack had appeal to an arbo.

Tom...since when did ANY rappel device allow for an inattentive operator . The rack is superlative in SRT rescue where both patient and rescuer are on the same device, or as the letdown device at your SRT anchor.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Burnham,

I'll default to your knowledge of long drops. When I've used my four bar w/hyper bar I've noticed that the bars move tighter with more rope. I've stopped mid-rap, spread them out and they stay apart with less rope below. Most times, I don't use the yper bar for longer raps because I know that pulls the bars together.

You're right arbo-pilots need to stay alert at all times. What I didn't make clear was that using the rack can lead to acceleration that could be hard to slow down. It's easier to close the door it its only opened a crack instead of flung back on its hinges.

In certain applications I like the rack the best. Being able to dial in the friction is a nice option.

Tom

 

[Burnham]

Tom,

Perhaps my SOP keeps me from having the bars move together, now that I think closely on it. I usually keep the bottom bar gripped on it's ends between thumb and forefinger of left hand, and brake with right hand. This gives me readily and easily fine tuned control by sliding that last bar up or down. It would also keep me in control of a tendency for the bars to creep together, as a side effect. I don't always follow that procedure, and I haven't noticed bar creep...I wonder if my 6 bar rack doesn't tend to do that as much as your 4 bar rack does. Could be...the friction of the bars on the frame legs would counter the pull of the weight of the rope, and I have another 50% of that than you do. Whaddayathink?

The concern with a rappel rack or a figure eight getting away from me is covered in my practice of having my climbing partner provide a ground based belay to my rappel line. He or she can slow or stop me easily if I accelerate beyond our accepted rap speeds. Training and practice make for short work of this one. My regular partner knows how fast I rap while I'm in control .

 

[Burnham]

another toy

Here ya go Spydy--guess what this little baby is. You folks will know right away, of course. The unusual thing about this is the size...

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i learned a lot from walking around 2nd tailed to a stitch plate; that Tom ID'd as a Bachli plate. Thanx again! There is a few more pieces that i have, that i was going to just send a pic to you to identify; but figured this would serve better and more....

i think these things are amazing in simplicity of design and graceful power.

Here is a pic of rack laced; and though i don't see us using these for belay or lowering; but i think wee can still learn from all the effort and knowledge that has been poured into them. Especially as they are so open to examination; when in some forms; these mechanichs might seem more hidden.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Here is something i use; that has become such a great deal; i get them for a few climbers around town; but only if they won't use'em for life support, fer they are spinlocks.

At least i think it is a good deal; is anyone familiar with these, or the price?

 

[Burnham]

Tree Spyder, I see your rack has as it's second bar one with an angled slot. Potential hazard there as it will allow backwards rigging. Prefered setup would employ a straight slot bar in that position...if a distracted rigger tries to mount the rope on the same side of the bars that the slot is on, it is immediately obvious as the straight slot bar will simply pivot away from the frame. With all bars having the angled slot, which grip the frame leg, one can get as far as loading the device before she zips off the rope...oops .

What you have there is perfectly safe as long as the rack is rigged correctly, of course...but this would give the boot to one mistake that could be (and has been) made, one with nasty consequences.

Straight slot bars are widely available, and cost very little.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Nice catch, i had it apart showing it to someone (nut isn't all the way threaded back on either)and didn't put the straight slotted bar back into that position or even on right rail! i noticed it; but didn't think anyone else would! And the knots etc. my main focus of all this; to me the most usable; but right is right! Heck i din't get busted on the pink paint on the eared'8!

This one took me awhile to figure out a few years back, when i picked it up for a $1! i toyed with it a few times in the air; still another better to understand, than use in tree me thinks!

But such smooth, clean efficient design to me......

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Here is what i think that light lil'Italian toy with spring is, .

If someone is hooked to a line with a friction device, and they are losing it/falling, pulling the line tight for them(from below) will slow them down, opposite of our speedlining on a line without friction(using carabiner or pulley to ride line instead of muenter or friction device); i think i saw buried in Burnham's response.

 

[Burnham]

That's the way you use the belay plate, Spydy. The spring helps the belayer handle his job a bit smoother. As you can see, the pair of slots in the plate alows for belaying a double rope climb. Did you figure out what that little ring was that I posted a picture of? Guess what the breaking strength is on that one.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm sorry, i thought it was like a ring to use as a sticht plate; thus my reply "i learned a lot from walking around 2nd tailed to a sticht plate".

i'd imagine it is pretty high strength, and put in a position that little strength is needed.

The spring toy's line holes are 2 differnt sizes marked "S" and "L"; i've seen pix of double lined plates/systems as you speak; but kinda assumed this was devised to use either/or/both; seeing as 2 different line sizes engineered for.

i got some stuff, to pic tonight; that i have my wildest guess/wonderings about. i almost originally just emailed pics to Tom for that, but developed this thread idea; so it is kinda what i'd been building too.

Counting on both of ya's now, to satisfy my wonderings; will ftry to post tonight.

Thanx a lot,
-KC

 

[Tom Dunlap]

http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/descenders/mbps.asp

That's a strong pice of aluminum.

In a pinch a link from a tow chain would work the same way.

The springs on the belay plates tend to push the plate away from the biner when taking in slack. Without the spring, the plate drops down tight onto the biner. Like B said, it smooths out the belay.

Plates and rings have fallen out of favor/style it seems. The various tube designs are becoming more popular.

KC,

Have you used the plate with arbo ropes for rappeling? How does that work? Twisting? Too much friction because of larger OD?

Tom

 

[Burnham]

That's interesting, KC, the different sized slots on your belay plate...mine has two of the same dimension.

One thing that we might note about those tiny CMI belay rings is that the manufacturer states that they must be retired at the point that the hard-coat wears thin enough to show bare aluminum. With such a thin item, friction can eat it pretty fast once that coating is gone. I'm not sure what the process that produces that coating consists of, but it is far more resistant to friction than simple anodizing.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Hard coating is an interesting process:

http://www.google.com/search?num=10...ewwindow=1&safe=off&q="hard+coating"+aluminum