OWB Installation ideas -- please

[stephen44]

Morning,

I’ve been reading the topics here with great interest - the knowledge I need to tap into - is definitely here - best forum on OWB on the net !!!!!

I’m just about to buy my first OWB. It will be the Taylor 750 - I chose this mainly due to the dealers I have in my area - and how well this dealer will work with me.

Let me tell you about my house - it is a single story, 3000 sq ft house in southern VA. It has two seperate AC/Heat Pump forced air systems - one for each end of the house. The house is 7 years old and is insulated to the hilt.

My wife is disabled and suffers from a circulatory disease - which means we need to keep the temps up around 80 and she needs an 80G very hot bath every day.

Consequently - my utility bill last winter was $400/month - and we are facing a 30% increase this year ! - so I’ve got to do something.

I have access to free unlimited supply of hardwood and already have 3 cords stacked and will have 10 by the end of this month - it is already pretty well seasoned.

- But I need some installation points cleared up/answered for me.

The recommended Taylor installation for the DHW - is to break into the cold feed to the 40G HW tank and run this up to the Heat Exchanger coil in the boiler (150 feet away) and then bring the heated water back to the HW tank input.

My first question is - will this system supply the quantity of HW we require - seems to me that to get very hot water - i almost have to draw off 40G - to get to the freshly heated hot water ?? - obviously I could disconnect the HW tank completely - but this gives me no backup - other systems I have seen circulate the HW back to the boiler keeping the water in the tank at the set temperature ?

second question:

What internal thermostats do you all use - they are telling me to use a line voltage thermostat - I really wanted to use a digital programmable one - so I can run slightly cooler temps at night - and get away from the big swings associated with line voltage thermostats?

thirdly - and thank you for your patience if you read this far !! - I’m being advised to run separate circuits to each furnace. Which means extra pipes,pumps etc. I really wanted to do them in series but still keep two thermostats - but they are saying it is hard for two thermostats to control one pump and two blowers - anyone got any ideas on this ? - I want to be able to control each end of the house independently - due to the usage.

I would really be interested in your thoughts on my installation options.

Thank You - Stephen

 

[MS-310]

I just seen this post, dont have much time. I dont understand why you would be runing a pump off a thermostat? The pump should be running 24/7 and the only thing the thermostat does is turns the fan on your heat pump set up.

the hotwater thing...... If you use a sidearm (look on line) your hot water tank will be at about 175 deg so in other words your hot water coming out of your bath tub will be at 175deg, thats way to hot. SO you NEED to put a mixing valve on your hotwater heater. (I hope your dealer knows what that is or you).......Yes you will have lots of Hotwater.

To me your dealer sounds kinda crazy.....THis is how I do it......

THe OWB keeps at say 180deg the pump (on the stove or in the house) runs 24/7 to move the 180deg hot water to the house. The lines go first to the Hot water heater then to one forced air furnce and then to the 2 furnce then back to the OWB.

THe 24v thermostat kicks on the FAN ONLY system of the forced air furnce and then hot air off the coil heats the house......I hope this helped I am not the best of typer or teacher but hands on I could show you...

 

[Jkebxjunke]

wow.. that's a lot of piping... the only 2 things i could probably gather why they want to pipe it that way is 1 maybe he doesn't stock the larger pipe ( which running 1 set of larger pipes is cheaper than 3 smaller ones and the other reason he thinks that IF one pump quits then the other one will still be running and you will have heat in 1/2 of the house... my advice .. buy a spare pump it would be cheaper than extra pipe. that's just my opinion. and I agree with using the side arm heat exchanger for domestic hot water. and with running the pump 24/7 I read on another site that the best thing for circ pumps is to keep them running 24/7... the constant on-off cycle will kill them or shorten their life.
and remember the KISS principle? Keep It Simple Stupid

 

[stephen44]

wow.. that's a lot of piping... the only 2 things i could probably gather why they want to pipe it that way is 1 maybe he doesn't stock the larger pipe ( which running 1 set of larger pipes is cheaper than 3 smaller ones and the other reason he thinks that IF one pump quits then the other one will still be running and you will have heat in 1/2 of the house... my advice .. buy a spare pump it would be cheaper than extra pipe. that's just my opinion. and I agree with using the side arm heat exchanger for domestic hot water. and with running the pump 24/7 I read on another site that the best thing for circ pumps is to keep them running 24/7... the constant on-off cycle will kill them or shorten their life.
and remember the KISS principle? Keep It Simple Stupid

but i'm trying to lessen my electric bill - won't running the 3 pumps 24/7 - cost a lot ?

 

[Jkebxjunke]

What I was thinking was running 1 set of pipes and 1 pump

 

[ericjeeper]

These little tacos

and Grundfoss do no use much electjuicity.

 

[kamhillbilly]

I am currently running three grundfos 15-58 pumps 24/7 they do not cost much to run .A friend figured it out for me and at Ontario Hydro rural rates it worked out under $7.00 a month.

 

[046]

you may not want to hear this... but I wouldn't buy an OWB, unless that was absolutely the last option available.

reason has nothing to do with how clean or dirty your particular OWB burns. fact is... political climate has been slowly changing on OWB's.

don't know about your part of the country, but there's been several posts concerning banning of OWB's. sure hate to be in a situation after spending thousands of $$$ getting your OWB installed. then be faced with it being outlawed.

there's all sorts of clean burning wood solutions. a free standing wood stove designed with forced air output directly into existing ducts is an option. there's auxiliary wood stoves available that hook directly into existing heater ducts.

some use a high efficiency fireplace insert with forced air output to heat their house 100% or supplement existing heater.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

you may want to hear this... but I wouldn't buy an OWB, unless that was absolutely the last option available.

reason has nothing to do with how clean or dirty your particular OWB burns. fact is... political climate has been slowly changing on OWB's.

don't know about your part of the country, but there's been several posts concerning banning of OWB's. sure hate to be in a situation after spending thousands of $$$ getting your OWB installed. then be faced with it being outlawed.

there's all sorts of clean burning wood solutions. a free standing wood stove designed with forced air output directly into existing ducts is an option. there's auxiliary wood stoves available that hook directly into existing heater ducts.

some use a high efficiency fireplace insert with forced air output to heat their house 100% or supplement existing heater.

good point... however if you live in a state (Like mine) if something is installed before a new law then it is 'grandfathered' in but if you have to replace it when it wears out then you are subject to the new laws... ( fortunately i live far enough out and own enough land that close neighbors are not a problem.. and if there are no complaints they nothing is done

 

[stephen44]

good point... however if you live in a state (Like mine) if something is installed before a new law then it is 'grandfathered' in but if you have to replace it when it wears out then you are subject to the new laws... ( fortunately i live far enough out and own enough land that close neighbors are not a problem.. and if there are no complaints they nothing is done

yes - same here .

what i'm thinking is - to save money and run an OWB for now - no neighbors or laws can stop me.

in 10 years or so - the technology will hopefully make everything on the market today redundant. Maybe I won't even have to worry about utility prices - we'll all have little cold fusion units in our back yards.

seriously though - I think gasification units still are in their infancy and would rather wait and see the technology mature.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

yes - same here .

what i'm thinking is - to save money and run an OWB for now - no neighbors or laws can stop me.

in 10 years or so - the technology will hopefully make everything on the market today redundant. Maybe I won't even have to worry about utility prices - we'll all have little cold fusion units in our back yards.

seriously though - I think gasification units still are in their infancy and would rather wait and see the technology mature.

the other thing with them is a lot of the units I see now have circuit boards in them ... i was talking with a vendor at the fair last week and he told me of a co worker that had a unit and the board went out and it was almost 2 weeks before they could get the part. electronics are nice BUT I tend to shy away from the first couple of generations of new equipment like that just for the bugs that are inherit in the system and until they make the circuitry and programming more robust either that or keep a few critical parts on hand.

 

[stephen44]

the other thing with them is a lot of the units I see now have circuit boards in them ... i was talking with a vendor at the fair last week and he told me of a co worker that had a unit and the board went out and it was almost 2 weeks before they could get the part. electronics are nice BUT I tend to shy away from the first couple of generations of new equipment like that just for the bugs that are inherit in the system and until they make the circuitry and programming more robust either that or keep a few critical parts on hand.

k.i.s.s - is always better IMHO

 

[046]

you're lucky to have enough room not to worry about close neighbors.

for others that are not so lucky... worry about a sundown clause that can be added to new ordinances. municipalities can and do use sundown clauses to force existing installations to be terminated after a reasonable time. say... 2 years after passing of new ordinances.

think about this.... what if local politics decides on a blanket ordinance outlawing ALL OWB's?

yes - same here .

what i'm thinking is - to save money and run an OWB for now - no neighbors or laws can stop me.

in 10 years or so - the technology will hopefully make everything on the market today redundant. Maybe I won't even have to worry about utility prices - we'll all have little cold fusion units in our back yards.

seriously though - I think gasification units still are in their infancy and would rather wait and see the technology mature.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

but i'm trying to lessen my electric bill - won't running the 3 pumps 24/7 - cost a lot ?

3 little fractional pumps is A LOT cheaper to operate that 2 heat pump units

I am currently running three grundfos 15-58 pumps 24/7 they do not cost much to run .A friend figured it out for me and at Ontario Hydro rural rates it worked out under $7.00 a month.

$7 a month lets just say even if it was $10 or 12 or $15 a month vs the $400 you spent last year and would probably be over $500 this year
unless you are on an electric co-op they tend to be a little cheaper... ( ours is here)

you're lucky to have enough room not to worry about close neighbors.

for others that are not so lucky... worry about a sundown clause that can be added to new ordinances. municipalities can and do use sundown clauses to force existing installations to be terminated after a reasonable time. say... 2 years after passing of new ordinances.

think about this.... what if local politics decides on a blanket ordinance outlawing ALL OWB's?

Fortunately I don't live in a municipality.. its rural farm area and besides some here will gripe more about the chicken houses that they would wood smoke.
I am far enough out.. I cant get DSL, I cant get cable.. no water service, no sewer service, no natural gas, and cell phone service used to be marginal ( inside the house it is very marginal) so my tv and my internet come via satellite.

 

[Junkfxr]

There are several co-ops in Virginia and none of them that I'm aware of have cheaper electricity. I am on one of them and our rates are at least 30% higher than my neighbor who is not on a co-op. My property line is the dividing line where the co-op service ends, that really bites.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

the local non co-op utility just had a 55% rate increase last year... ours only had a 8% increase. ouch... and for someone who uses as much electric as I do... ( $2500 last month alone) a 55% increase would have sucked ( most of the $ from my wallet)

 

[Junkfxr]

WOW, $2500 in a month. I hope that's not just for your house. About 90% of our place runs on solar or other alternative energy now. It's almost paid for itself in 8 years now. The best part is we hardley know when the power is out

 

[Jkebxjunke]

I spend between $13-15,000 a year for electric... ( also have 4 chicken houses) summer is the worst. with all those fans running.

 

[zh farms]

you may not want to hear this... but I wouldn't buy an OWB, unless that was absolutely the last option available.

reason has nothing to do with how clean or dirty your particular OWB burns. fact is... political climate has been slowly changing on OWB's.

don't know about your part of the country, but there's been several posts concerning banning of OWB's. sure hate to be in a situation after spending thousands of $$$ getting your OWB installed. then be faced with it being outlawed.

there's all sorts of clean burning wood solutions. a free standing wood stove designed with forced air output directly into existing ducts is an option. there's auxiliary wood stoves available that hook directly into existing heater ducts.

some use a high efficiency fireplace insert with forced air output to heat their house 100% or supplement existing heater.

The county I live in (a rural county) doesn't even have a building code, let alone any plan on banning a wood burner. The peasants would storm the castle if the county board even thought about it. And I am on the township board...and I have friends.

I'm very fortunate. My nearest neighbor is 1/2-mile away, and they are my in-laws. Nobody would even know I was using a OWB if they were illegal anyways.

ZH