Owb/keeping It Running After Lost Electric

[ant]

I LOOSE ELECTRIC from time to time. i installed my central boiler at the end of February,at that time the temps. here in n.j. where not that cold so loosing electric at that time was not that big of a issue. i need to think of a way to keep my owb on-line while we have those outages.
I NEED TO FIND OUT A WAY TO:
1. keep the owb running
2. run my forced air heater fan
3. provide electric to my thermostat

i have a Honda EU 2000i generator(2000 watts)

 

[HUSKYMAN]

An easy way to keeo things running is to get a decent sized generator with a 220 outlet, about 5000-6000 watts. When power is out at my place I can simply turn off the disconnect to the power grid, fire up my generator, and plug it into my 220 outlet in the barn and backfeed everything in my house. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO TURN OFF THE DISCONNECT FIRST! I can run lights, fridge, a/c, etc. You just need a little common sense about not running everything in the house at once.

This setup will not meet code because you need an automatic system to meet code, which is probably a $1000 more.

Those little generators are great for being quiet and having the idle up/down feature to save fuel, but it is not designed to back up a heating system.

For $600 you can get a real generator and not miss a beat

 

[iCreek]

I kind have been thinking of the same thing for my OWB. When we had the ice storm this past winter we lost power for about 5 days, off and on, more off than on. I did not have my OWB going at the time but at my inlaws we just ran a 10K-11K Miller generator and plugged it into the 220 welder outlet in the shop and feed the whole house, including the 110 current to the OWB blower. So a bigger generator and you might be able to do 'whole house' like we did for a few days. Don't remember the fuel tank size on his generator, but we filled it up about every 8 hours.

Dittos on the disconnect, we just cut the lead tamper wire and unplugged the rural electric co. meter before plugging into the 220 outlet in the shop.

 

[logbutcher]

That's why we use non-powered wood stoves....and an inside transfer/switching box for the generator. Just shut off the line box, start the generator, switch the gen box on to the house circuits. Easy install, get them at Home Depot.

 

[Zodiac45]

An easy way to keeo things running is to get a decent sized generator with a 220 outlet, about 5000-6000 watts. When power is out at my place I can simply turn off the disconnect to the power grid, fire up my generator, and plug it into my 220 outlet in the barn and backfeed everything in my house. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO TURN OFF THE DISCONNECT FIRST! I can run lights, fridge, a/c, etc. You just need a little common sense about not running everything in the house at once.

This setup will not meet code because you need an automatic system to meet code, which is probably a $1000 more.

Those little generators are great for being quiet and having the idle up/down feature to save fuel, but it is not designed to back up a heating system.

For $600 you can get a real generator and not miss a beat

How does that work HM?

Not just turning the main panel off? This must be sort of bypass then? Off the grid, but still able too access the circuit? Most people who have electric ovens will have a 220 line as I do in the kitchen. Wonder if I could tap into that, run it into the barn as you mentioned. I have a Lincoln Ranger 8 in the there, which is a 25 amp welder/8k gen powered by an onan V-twin. I'm sure that would do the trick provided I've got that disconnect you mentioned?

PS: I just see Logbutchers post. So that pretty much is the deal?

 

[logbutcher]

Yes Steve. It's called EmerGen Switch---comes in various sizes for the amount of circuits you need covered by the generator.
You can get fancy with a completely automatic system and propane generator that kicks on when the power blows, then will shut off and switch back when the line comes back on. Many of the really elderly have them around here. We're saving that for our dotage next year. :monkey: :monkey:

 

[Geez]

How does that work HM?

Not just turning the main panel off? This must be sort of bypass then? Off the grid, but still able too access the circuit? Most people who have electric ovens will have a 220 line as I do in the kitchen. Wonder if I could tap into that, run it into the barn as you mentioned. I have a Lincoln Ranger 8 in the there, which is a 25 amp welder/8k gen powered by an onan V-twin. I'm sure that would do the trick provided I've got that disconnect you mentioned?

PS: I just see Logbutchers post. So that pretty much is the deal?

In it's simplist form, a transfer switch is like a huge double throw blade switch. You throw the switch one way, and the panel is fed from the electric power lines, throw it the other way and it is fed from a generator. That way, when you are on the generator side, your generator will not backfeed into the power company lines, potentially killing some workman who is trying to fix the "dead" power lines, when the power is supposedly out.
Plus, all those other customers downline, who have no power, will begin to draw on that backfeed and burn up your generator.

 

[fireman31]

another option

I use a 200 amp disconnect between the electric meter. Mine happens to be the type you'd use for a mobile home. The one I selected for the task also has 6 or 8 extra breaker slots in it. It worked out well because the breaker box in the new house was full. I reserved 2 of the slots for a 150 amp double pole breaker which I connected to a suitable outlet near the disconnect. I disconnect the "main" 200 amp breaker in the panel and back feed the house through the 150 amp breaker in the disconnect. It's not automatic but it works well. If you need pics or have any questions I'd be glad to explain it some more.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

In it's simplist form, a transfer switch is like a huge double throw blade switch. You throw the switch one way, and the panel is fed from the electric power lines, throw it the other way and it is fed from a generator. That way, when you are on the generator side, your generator will not backfeed into the power company lines, potentially killing some workman who is trying to fix the "dead" power lines, when the power is supposedly out.
Plus, all those other customers downline, who have no power, will begin to draw on that backfeed and burn up your generator.

In Michigan all new houses and electrical connections to the main grid have to have a disconnect (200A for most) between the main grid and the meter. Turning off this 200A breaker completely seperates you from the grid.

If you dont have a disconnect (most houses over 10 years old probably dont) then you need to use a switch like decribed above.

Using a stove or dryer 220 outlet would be the same thing, just a different kind of plug is needed. I would be sure to use a good arc fault or ground fault breaker on the line you are using to backfeed also.

 

[iCreek]

Using a stove or dryer 220 outlet would be the same thing, just a different kind of plug is needed. I would be sure to use a good arc fault or ground fault breaker on the line you are using to backfeed also.

One thing to think about is how would you run the cord from the generator to the outlet... My stove and dryer are so deep in the house that those outlets would not work.. I do have a 220 in the downstairs garage, but not sure how that would work either, as the generator needs to be outside and in the dead of winter I would not want my garage door open to run the cord through. Not sure what I am going to do.... I have seen alot of people around here add an transfer switch and outlet or cord connect at their service meter outside, right on or near the pole. With us being rural and the poles being way off the road, that seems to be OK with the Rural Electric company. I will try to get a pic of my brother in laws, real nice setup at the pole.

 

[Geez]

In Michigan all new houses and electrical connections to the main grid have to have a disconnect (200A for most) between the main grid and the meter. Turning off this 200A breaker completely seperates you from the grid.

If you dont have a disconnect (most houses over 10 years old probably dont) then you need to use a switch like decribed above.

Using a stove or dryer 220 outlet would be the same thing, just a different kind of plug is needed. I would be sure to use a good arc fault or ground fault breaker on the line you are using to backfeed also.

The main problem with using the main disconnect instead of a transfer switch is human error. Often times when power is out (storms/icy cold, etc) people panic a little in an effort to get things going again. They may forget to shut off the breaker before firing up the generator. I know, we all SAY we won't forget, but that one time may seriously injure or kill someone. Or maybe you won't be home and a neighbor or friend who isn't completely informed comes over to 'help out'.
This is why many codes and regulations require automatic transfer switches.

 

[zsteinmetz]

running your generator into a dryer of welder outlet is a bad idea. You would be essentially running your whole house off the wire from the outlet to the panel usually number 8 wire. Say you did overload it it could burn off in the wall or start a fire then or later on down the road. Plus if the electric company saw you doing that you would be in deeeeeeeeeep trouble.

 

[gtstang462002]

running your generator into a dryer of welder outlet is a bad idea. You would be essentially running your whole house off the wire from the outlet to the panel usually number 8 wire. Say you did overload it it could burn off in the wall or start a fire then or later on down the road. Plus if the electric company saw you doing that you would be in deeeeeeeeeep trouble.

+1000

 

[HUSKYMAN]

running your generator into a dryer of welder outlet is a bad idea. You would be essentially running your whole house off the wire from the outlet to the panel usually number 8 wire. Say you did overload it it could burn off in the wall or start a fire then or later on down the road. Plus if the electric company saw you doing that you would be in deeeeeeeeeep trouble.

If you have a 20 amp breaker on the generator and breaker in the house sized to the wire to your stove there will be no overload in the wire.

I agree my setup is not for everyone, and precautions have to be taken. I would not allow anyone to set up my generator except my brother in law who helped me set it up in the first place. An automatic transfer switch is the way to go. However in the middle of a blizzard if there is no power and there is an emergency my way will get you through when you cant go to Home Depot and get a switch.

ICreek all you need to do is run a 220 outlet from your garage to your main panel, or if there is not enough room run a subpanel. You can run your generator right outside the garage door and plug into the garage. Get yourself a transfer switch and you are good to go. Contact your local electrical inspector for any questions on local codes.