OWF Installation advice please

[stephen44]

I have decided to install an OWF. I liive on the VA NC border and last winter due to my disabled wife's illness our new - well insulated home cost us $400/month to heat to the temperature she needs via heat pumps.

The house is single level - 3000sqft - but with two separate heat pump/ac/ forced air systems. The house is very open inside to allow the wheelchair to get around - so it is hard to seal off the living areas - meaning the whole house is being heated all the time.

I have decided to go with the Taylor T750 - mainly based on we only have a few dealers/brands down here - and our local one is great and is going to come over and give us lot's of help with the insulation for free !!! - I believe in service as much as anything.

I have a couple of questions - the dealer has given his opinion and I wanted to ask others too !

for those of you with furnaces - if you were doing the installation again - how far would you have placed your unit from the house ?

seems to me a toss up between the cost of further distance (pipes etc), the further you have to go in the cold to stoke etc vs the amount of smoke and soot that is going to go on the white vinyl sided house ( hopefully the location has a prevailing wind taking majority of smoke away from the house ).

I am thinking of insulating the pipes myself - each pipe in foam pipe wrap then a layer of f-glass - and then all sealed in solid corrugated 6" drain pipe sealed at both ends - so water can't get in - do you think this will work - this should cost me $450 vs $1200 for the ready made 4 pipe stuff ( i will have two circuits - heat and water = 4 pex pipes)



also I am going to take one heat circuit to the first heat exchanger - then take the output of this to the second and the output of this as the return - with two thermostats to control each furnace fan. I realize the second HE will be receiving colder water until the first one reaches temp but then it should catch up - doing it this way will save about $1000 in total install costs

views greatly appreciated !!

Stephen

 

[Jkebxjunke]

Firs off .. why do you need a circuit just for hot water? why not just use a heat exchanger on your hot water heater since the circuit will most likely be circulating all the time. a HE for DHW is a bit cheaper than extra run of pipe. Also why not use 1 set of larger insulated pex pipes to feed both HE's in the heat pumps?
As for the distance .. you might want to check with your insurance co.
Mine is going to be 50' from the house. As for the smoke issue.. it all depends... you may have to add a section of chimney pipe to it after you get it up an running... ( that's what I was told about mine.) Check out Ebay for insulated pex pipe.. and also it depends on how may BTU's you need and match it to the heat carrying capacity of the pipe. I plan on keeping an extra pump on hand 'just in case' one should fail. I will have ate least 3 circulator pumps on my set up and later when my shop is finished.. there will be 4. I am planning on using 1 1/4 pex to the first house then 1" pex to the second ( although the heat load calculation says i could get by with 3/4").
I am not a professional but this is just my opinion. I was thinking of making up my own pipe.. but it looks like the cost will be about the same. I think i will go for convenience on ths one.

 

[HardyOWB]

I have a Hardy OWB and it is about 150ft from the house. I did not buy insulated PEX due to the high price, and I am glad I didn't. My uninsulated PEX lines are buried 4 ft below the ground in 4"PVC conduit. There is only a 5 degree heat loss from the boiler to where the lines come into the basement.

For that size house you should probably be prepared to burn a minimum of 25 face cord, roughly 8 cord per year. Depending of course on the number of months you burn, the severity of this winter, and the temp you keep your house. If you are used to burning wood, its not bad, but if its new to you its a lot of work.

I run one heat exchanger, but to give you an idea, the water temp at the stove is 175, the water temp right before the heat exchager is about 170. After the heat exchager it is about 150. Given that it is still very warm after the heat exchanger I think you are ok going to a second heat exchager.

 

[stephen44]

Firs off .. why do you need a circuit just for hot water? why not just use a heat exchanger on your hot water heater since the circuit will most likely be circulating all the time. a HE for DHW is a bit cheaper than extra run of pipe. Also why not use 1 set of larger insulated pex pipes to feed both HE's in the heat pumps?
As for the distance .. you might want to check with your insurance co.
Mine is going to be 50' from the house. As for the smoke issue.. it all depends... you may have to add a section of chimney pipe to it after you get it up an running... ( that's what I was told about mine.) Check out Ebay for insulated pex pipe.. and also it depends on how may BTU's you need and match it to the heat carrying capacity of the pipe. I plan on keeping an extra pump on hand 'just in case' one should fail. I will have ate least 3 circulator pumps on my set up and later when my shop is finished.. there will be 4. I am planning on using 1 1/4 pex to the first house then 1" pex to the second ( although the heat load calculation says i could get by with 3/4").
I am not a professional but this is just my opinion. I was thinking of making up my own pipe.. but it looks like the cost will be about the same. I think i will go for convenience on ths one.

hmm - there is a heat exchanger for the H/W - at the HW tanks - with a coil in the furnace - hence 1 pair of pipes for this and then another pair of pipes for the H/E for the forced air system.

as to the size of the pipe - how would this help - as the pipe size through the H/E is 3/4 ?

I have a Hardy OWB and it is about 150ft from the house. I did not buy insulated PEX due to the high price, and I am glad I didn't. My uninsulated PEX lines are buried 4 ft below the ground in 4"PVC conduit. There is only a 5 degree heat loss from the boiler to where the lines come into the basement.

For that size house you should probably be prepared to burn a minimum of 25 face cord, roughly 8 cord per year. Depending of course on the number of months you burn, the severity of this winter, and the temp you keep your house. If you are used to burning wood, its not bad, but if its new to you its a lot of work.

I run one heat exchanger, but to give you an idea, the water temp at the stove is 175, the water temp right before the heat exchager is about 170. After the heat exchager it is about 150. Given that it is still very warm after the heat exchanger I think you are ok going to a second heat exchager.

yes I calculate 6-8 full cords a year - am new - but for the significan savings an not afraid of hard work !!!

 

[abohac]

I have decided to install an OWF. I liive on the VA NC border and last winter due to my disabled wife's illness our new - well insulated home cost us $400/month to heat to the temperature she needs via heat pumps.

The house is single level - 3000sqft - but with two separate heat pump/ac/ forced air systems. The house is very open inside to allow the wheelchair to get around - so it is hard to seal off the living areas - meaning the whole house is being heated all the time.

I have decided to go with the Taylor T750 - mainly based on we only have a few dealers/brands down here - and our local one is great and is going to come over and give us lot's of help with the insulation for free !!! - I believe in service as much as anything.

I have a couple of questions - the dealer has given his opinion and I wanted to ask others too !

for those of you with furnaces - if you were doing the installation again - how far would you have placed your unit from the house ?

seems to me a toss up between the cost of further distance (pipes etc), the further you have to go in the cold to stoke etc vs the amount of smoke and soot that is going to go on the white vinyl sided house ( hopefully the location has a prevailing wind taking majority of smoke away from the house ).

I am thinking of insulating the pipes myself - each pipe in foam pipe wrap then a layer of f-glass - and then all sealed in solid corrugated 6" drain pipe sealed at both ends - so water can't get in - do you think this will work - this should cost me $450 vs $1200 for the ready made 4 pipe stuff ( i will have two circuits - heat and water = 4 pex pipes)



also I am going to take one heat circuit to the first heat exchanger - then take the output of this to the second and the output of this as the return - with two thermostats to control each furnace fan. I realize the second HE will be receiving colder water until the first one reaches temp but then it should catch up - doing it this way will save about $1000 in total install costs

views greatly appreciated !!

Stephen

You sound like you have a similiar situation to mine. I put my stove 300 ft from my house becasue I had to put it to the west. I wanted to easily be able to get wood to the stove without cutting up the yard and I wanted to be able to easily drive right up to the stove. I have 4 lines also. I heat my garage floor, basement floor, and all tiled floor areas of my house (that takes all the heat from one line. The other line goes to my hot water (potable) heat exchanger, then to one forced air furnace then to the other forced air furnace and then back to the stove. I also would highly recommend that you do not insulate your own lines. I have read a ton of these posts and understand that guys have done it themselves successfully (at least that's what they are telling us) but for every successful one I'll bet there is 10 unsuccessful. If there is one area that you do not want to screw up, it is here (the underground part). Just my two cents. I don't sell any of this stuff but I have installed plenty of them and all are running without complaint. Good luck!

 

[tanker]

SPEND THE MONEY RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,put the good pipe in underground,you will never regret it at all

 

[stephen44]

SPEND THE MONEY RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,put the good pipe in underground,you will never regret it at all

so for four lines - what is the good pipe please ?

 

[abohac]

so for four lines - what is the good pipe please ?

The stuff I used came in sticks and was made in Canada, but my cousin just used some that was sealess and flexible. I'll get the name of the stuff and get back with you.

 

[stephen44]

The stuff I used came in sticks and was made in Canada, but my cousin just used some that was sealess and flexible. I'll get the name of the stuff and get back with you.

cool - ty

 

[STEVEGODSEYJR]

so for four lines - what is the good pipe please ?

I used KITEC pipe on my Heatmore furnace. The center is brass with plastic on both the inside and outside of the brass. It helps hold in the heat very well. just a suggestion.

 

[LTREES]

insulated pipe

I used Central boiler's under ground pipe Thermo-pex. $12.50 a foot. It is a little costly, but i have no worries or doubts. It is all 1 piece.