Philosophical tree question...

[Gopher]

Hello all.

O.K., so we do our job and inform people about their trees. We then tell them about the large, dead limbs overhanging their deck, yard and boat pier. We know the limbs are at the point of soon falling to the ground, and would really like to do them a.s.a.p., but all four trees are red oaks.

Now, we all know not to be cutting oaks in the spring time - now which is worse - taking the chance of cutting into live tissue, or leaving the limbs for another three months? Remember, we (I) did a good job pointing anumber of these limbs out. If one does happen to come down prior to commencing work... will we (I) be negligent or liable?

I actually have two situations like this right now. I honestly feel that not cutting for a number of months is NOT the right answer, but I am still trying to deal with my decision. On another job, the contractor is just about ready to start a remodel job, and some limbs need to be trimmed from a couple of bur oak. I am more than happt to do the proper prune job, as around the lakes here, we constantly deal with people who would rather keep any tree or limb, and then we have a dickens of a time getting it out when it dies or breaks.

We all have questions like these. Let me know what you think.

Thank you everyone.

Gopher

 

[MasterBlaster]

You can cut dead limbs out ANYTIME of the year.

Not real sure about the liability issue with the 2nd question. If you tell them about the hazard, and they don't do anything about it, you may try to get them to sign something saying you have warned them.

 

[NeTree]

Safety first!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
You can cut dead limbs out ANYTIME of the year.

MB, you and I are not in wilt country yet, and I'm not so sure about this one. Live cambium can be wounded during the removal of dead limbs. Akso, can bugs feeding on exposed, "dead" xylem spread the fungus? I dunno. Last I heard, pruning paint was used to seal wounds on red oaks.

Dave (good to meet you in MN--hope it was worth the trip!), I don't see any exposure to liability coming from pointing out hazards to a tree owner. NOT pointing them out would be potential trouble. I've worried before about not getting work done soon enough after the owner gives the go-ahead, but have been told that a good-faith effort can trump charges of negligence.

AS always, if you keep copies of your estimates/reports, you should be OK. Pictures are especially useful to document condition.

 

[NickfromWI]

Hey Gopher, how's the swing!

Here's a time-wasting solution to your question....Climb the tree and cut the deadwood out, but don't be so concerned about cutting off a lot of each branch. Leave a short stub that you know will not fall off. Short as you can without possibly cutting into the live tissue. Then tell the rich Green Lake clients that you will charge them to come back in the winter and do proper cuts on those stubs (which might cut a little bit into the live tissue).

Tell them you are going to charge them for the winter work NOW, so that they won't leave the stubs in the tree when they "forget" to call you back. That way you won't be bored on those slow winter days!

love
nick

 

[maligwa]

sounds like a plan

I like that!!

good plan NickfromWI... but will the customer be willing to pay for a job not done?

 

[NickfromWI]

Re: sounds like a plan

Originally posted by maligwa
I like that!!

good plan NickfromWI... but will the customer be willing to pay for a job not done?

No way! Gopher is as good as they come!! He'll get there as soon as ...

A) The trees are dormant AND
B) The winter weather is slightly tolerable...enough to work in AND
C) The three stooges let him away from the house!

love
nick

 

[treeman82]

I'm with Nick on this one. Take out as much of the dead limbs as you can without cutting into live wood. Leave some stubs that can clearly be seen from the ground, yet are of little risk to the target. Find some other work to do there in the winter besides those couple of stubs, and like that its just a part of another day at the property.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Nickin the wound wood is not the biggest problem, one can laeve a slight stub and be done with it. No need to come back in fall, unless you want to do some thinning or house clearance or whatnot.

Right now the cambium will be loose and easy to wound with our bodies and the deadwood being removed.

I would have explained to the client that there is a risk of failure and a risk of damaging the tree. They can choose thier own risk tolerance.

The deadwood has been there for wquite a while, it is probably only the tips that are loosely attatched right now.

 

[Nathan Wreyford]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
.

I would have explained to the client that there is a risk of failure and a risk of damaging the tree. They can choose thier own risk tolerance.

Amen

Some people would rather buy a new roof for a boat house than try and replace a 100yr old tree

 

[Gopher]

All arborists go to heaven -II

I know the Disney show is entitled, "All Dogs Go To Heaven", but what the hay, we're better looking than dogs (aren't we?!).

Yes Nick, the swing is good (it's been so windy, the "three stooges" think there is a ghost rider. Of course I go along with that one!

I've tended to stay out of oaks this time of year. Since I have been called in to sub on this job, I will ask for the owners contact information and personally make the contact to explain options and allow them to make a good , educated decision with regards to THEIR tree care.

Yes, Guy, I live for meeting informed and educated people. You use the "common sense approach very well.

Our collective effort is unmatched. Thank you all.

Gopher

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: All arborists go to heaven -II

Originally posted by Gopher
I know the Disney show is entitled, "All Dogs Go To Heaven", but what the hay, we're better looking than dogs (aren't we?!).
If you'd seen my dog you wouldn't say that.
Since I have been called in to sub on this job, I will ask for the owners contact information and personally make the contact to explain options and allow them to make a good , educated decision with regards to THEIR tree care.
Here's a contract climber who does not compromise his ethics. "Just doing as you're told" did not keep prison guards at Auschwitz from being guilty of genocide, and it is no excuse for an arborist either. :alien:

You use the "common sense approach very well.
Is there any other approach to use, without being a robot?

Our collective effort is unmatched.
We've got the power; thanks for showing us how you use it well.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Our approach is this, if the limb is hazardous, it must be fairly large and usually lower in the canopy, so we climb carefully and only work the hazardous limb(s). The tools are disinfected before we begin each tree. We carry spray pruning paint and apply it immediately after each cut.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I thought painting the cuts was no longer necessary.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

In the old days, painting was thought to prevent decay and help wound closure. Research showed it did niether. It does however put down a barrier that discourages insects from being attracted to the fresh cut. Insects are known to be the main vector of Wilt, a fungal disease that has devistated Oaks in WI.
So irregardless of wether or not paint affects wound closure or decay advancement, it prevents Oak Wilt from being spread to fesh cuts during the season insects are active.