Pin Oak questions

[bottlefed89]

Alright, I need some advice. I have a family friend that has asked me about doing some work on a pin oak she has in her front yard. The tree is actually about 3 feet from her house. The tree has a lot of branches on and directly over the house that she worries about, and she hates everything that drops in her gutters. She wants to atleast get it trimmed, but also has a fair concern about the trees impact on her basement. The house is about 45-50 yrs old, so I would guess the tree is in that age range as well, and is roughly 65 ft. tall, about 3ft. thick. I would have to imagine the root system has the potential to damage the basement, but can't honestly give her an educated answer. What does everyone think I should tell her?? It is a nice tree that I'd like to save, but how big of a concern is the root system??

 

[Tree Machine]

I hate these assesments. The tree is beautiful and can be pruned to flow naturally with the house. Big trees amongst homes is my bread and butter work.

The root system is a big concern with regards to the basement walls. Roots will get fine and extensive along a basement wall. I have seen this on an outdoor block wall, where the wall got pushed more and more until it had to be removed. I was working a job across the street when the concrete guys pulled that wall down. There, exposed, was the flattened, vertical root mass.

From that firsthand view, plus the fact that roots DO inevitably get bigger as time goes on, go ahead and pose some worst-case scenarios with estimated costs. i.e. 20 years from now, the tree is much bigger and more costly to remove, the cost of the basement repair along with that removal, what if the tree uprooted, would it land ON the house, or uplift the corner of the house.

This is just posing possibilities. We don't know what Mother Nature will throw our way, nor do we really know what those roots look like or how they'll actually behave. We do know the tree's proximity to the house and the fact that it will get bigger over time. It seems likely that someone, in the future, will remove the tree because of it's eventual huge size, or limbs that may snap off and cause damage or pose injury. Sometimes there's no reason to put off the inevitable, waiting until expensive damage is done.

This causes me great pain. Schedule the tree for takedown this Winter.

 

[bottlefed89]

I may do just that, may do it sooner though - I'm getting kinda hungry and just bought a house. I basically told her $250 to trim, and $975 to remove. She seemed to think if she was going to spend any money, and agreed that since it should eventually come out she would rather just get rid of it now.
I hate it too, the tree was obviously planted by someone - why were they stupid enough to put it so close. I hate to murder it, but money wise I think now is the best time for her to do it. 25 feet further into the front yard and this would have been a dream tree.

By the way, TM, I'm not that far away. If you've got any customers you need to get taken care of, I could drive that way for a weekend or so. Best of luck with your recovery.

 

[treeseer]

White oak 36" dbh 2' from house. Called to look at crack in basement wall 14 years ago. Told them that removing the tree would not fix the crack, and that the crack would not get much bigger since the tree would not get much bigger. 13 years later the crack looks the same, no other problems, and the tree is highly valued by the owners.

On your tree you could apply a growth regulator like cambistat to forestall wall problems, and/or this fall dig along the foundation and prune any roots that hit it.

If you're hungry you can live on beans and oatmeal as I do or come to NC to work. It's only 104 degrees out today.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thanks, Bottlefed. I really appreciate your offer. I have a top apprentice out doing smaller work while I recover, and a bigger company who I have contract-climbed for in the past taking on all the big Mambas.

Meuller has listed a valid root-to-home scenario. I'm sure there are thousands of trees planted too close to the house where no damage is being done.

I always like to come to bat for the tree. My acid test is in posing a hypthetical question or two. Yes or no, Will the roots push into the basement wall? Will there be no damage to the home if the tree were to fall?

If you are to defend the preservation of the tree, you need to not open yourself up to liability. Careful what you say, and especially, what you put in writing.

Ultimately, leave the decision up to the customer. Your assessment is to provide them the information they need to decide. Your estimate gives them a price, or prices.

 

[treeseer]

I always like to come to bat for the tree. My acid test is in posing a hypthetical question or two. Yes or no, Will the roots push into the basement wall? Will there be no damage to the home if the tree were to fall?

TM I don't understand your test, the way you set up those questions sounds like you're striking the tree out. the answer to both is not "Yes" or "No", It's "Maybe--It Depends".

m'sieur Meilleur; Mueller is a German dude, I'm french.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm on your side, guy

Sorrry about the spelling, French Dude. My intent is never to strike the tree out. You and I are tree huggers at the highest level. My point is, if you're going to save a tree, don't make it so your words or written advice come back to bite you, that's all.

For instance, if Bottlefed would say, "The worst that can happen in the next 14 years is a simple crack in your basement foundation. My advice is let's keep the tree." 5 years later, as the wall is slowly pushed inward, a major, horizontal rain storm occurs, tornado sirens blare, family goes to the basement, water begins pouring in the innocent crack, the water level raises up to the electrical outlets and the Father and two kids are electrocuted. Mom is spared, but man is she ticked off. Someone must pay.

OK, this is an unrealistic, hypothetical scenario, but the point being we can not predict the future, nor can we predict when and where violent storms will occur.

My general advice in these situations is to paint a worst case scenario for the client...."If this tree were to..... Give that our normal big weather blows from THIS direction, if the tree were to fall it would most likely fall--------->

We know the likelihood of that oak toppling over is minimal, but do we really KNOW that? The answer is no. We presume, based on our experiences with other oaks, who all are uniquely different in ways we can't know. We essentially compare apples to oranges, in a sense. Each tree is uniquely it's own situation and my advice is to use caution in how you phrase your assessment. It's less about 'striking the tree out' and more about not opening yourself to liability for the sake of the tree.