POLL: What is Your Biggest Challenge or Problem in this Business?

[sawtoter06]

I was talking with a fellow tree care professional the other day and we got on the topic of some of the problems that we face in day to day operations of our tree care businesses. Some of the problems we had answers to, others we did not. I am starting this thread to take a poll of some of the biggest challenges we face as tree care business owners and hopefully as a group, come up with some great ideas to overcome them. Whaddya think?

 

[tree MDS]

Finding normal help that shows up and can actually work. That and I hate winter and being slow.

 

[southsoundtree]

finding employees that follow directions and that can also think for themselves appropriately-- see the forest for the trees.

Seasonality of the work.

People only wanting the cheapest price.

 

[TDunk]

I really don't have any day to day problems (because i'm just a part-timer) But i'd say my biggest problem is people adding work when we show up to do the job. Not that i'm b!tching about getting more work, and 90% of the time they say ok when i tell them it'll cost more, but just doing the tree work only part-time, it kind of throws a fork into my schedule.

 

[treemandan]

went click today, sure did. Told the overpaid jerktoons that stood behind me, drank coffe and watched me work that if they were still on the property in minute I was shooting.
The one kid (28) brings his big ass trailr and parks in on my lawn He says," I need that for later on today." I don't know if he was planning to work in the dark later cause we had an all day job. Then he is milling around staring at woodpiles and daydreamimg, spitting all over the place and really irritateing me.
So J fiinally rolls in around ten. He is sipping coffee ( always leaving his trash around sometimes in the clients yard) and standing there waiting for someone to tell him what to do. He decided to excavate the foundation of his house last month; he thought it would take a few hours. He was busy all month on it. So I thanked him for showing up and told him the truck was dead and that he could go home. He was still standing there by the time I got into my outback and went looking for the oil guy who screwed up my house.
Of course by 8 am before all this the spill crew was busy sawing , digging and ripping away in the driveway while I was trying to get the loader loaded. I had to get another adapter for the lights on the trailer cause the dinglebarries can't do anything unless you tell them 4 or five times and lost the old one. I guess its my fault I picked up the wrong adapter this time.
One day the conncter fell off and was trashed by grinding on the road. I showed J how to wrap the wires and still had the same problem I after I fixed it last week. Once I went to look at the hitch and he didn't even put the pin in the lock. It was right there, tied to the hitch. This ain't his first day. I hate dill does. He don't pay attention and I can't pay for that crap.
Really if we all had a nickle...
So F it, really. I will stick to jobs I can do alone. It is actually easier for me to hook up my chipper by myself anyway if you could possibly beleive that.
I called Josh Lord and said " I got good news and bad, the good is that my dump truck needs a tow and I just told everybody to scram, the bad is that I will be in tommorow morning". Trust me, he got worse problems than me but...
so back to J. This guy will sit there riding shotgun on the way to job, when he gets out of the truck its OJ and doughnut time plus the constant cigarette smoke I gotta breath when he is watching bust my ass. Add in the radio earmuffs and its real bad.
i do smoke but really nowhere near as much as anybody else. 2 packs of camel wides a day? Plus all the pot? Way more than me.
I do know other people to call for help but I don't want to. Not worth it. I will get my fix for the big sticks subbing again and putz around with shrubs and smaller trees ALONE. Besides the way it is around here with so many people getting into tree work I am sick of being a " to do" on someone elses agenda. Just for the record, The Dan wasn't very hard to underbid. Some of these mexican pushers were thousands less. I asked Chris the wood dealer what he charges, he thought so I could underbid him. Actually quite the opposite.
I really was the type of guy to understand the need to MOVE on these jobs we do. I don't recall my fanny ever coming in contact with the chipper hopper and alwyas tried to see where I should be next to help out instead of being a burden. I can't expect someone to pay me while I sip coffe and watch unless they said they would and that hasn't happen yet.
I also wonder about these companies who look for climber/ forepersons to run the show. I think its wrong to ask climber to be foreman. How is he supposed to foreman everybody while he is up there? I usually didn't take the job if I was supposed to do everything, to hard, not my problem.
when I started this business I did it with the mindset if I had a problem getting help I could just do jobs myself. I have, its not really any harder though its true, you can't do them all solo.
So maybe if there is no one else that can help you and you can tolerate me I can come work for you? With you that is, I never worked a day in my life for someone else.
Beleive me MDS if one of those baboons ran a open truck door into something I would not be so relaxed right now. I remember at Treeco's place I used to roll those zig zag cigarettes and evrybody thought it was so cool ( I was just poor) they kept asking me so every ten minutes there they were trying to roll smokes while on the job site. I could see why Dan would get a little pissed at that, it was actually bothering me, very distracting but then I can roll a smoke in a second with one hand but not every ten minutes.. I was glad he said something about it I was tired of being bothered handing out smokes when I had stuff to do. I was kinda neat to watch them light those crappily rolled smokes though, they would just poof up real fast and scare em.
Oh well, I am certainly not going looking for any help as I know better. I will plant these 3 15 foot white spruce trees by myself ( once the truck is fixed) and I will not be handing any money over to a slacker. I know I was nuts on jobs sometimes, least I was there.

 

[treemandan]

went click today, sure did. Told the overpaid jerktoons that stood behind me, drank coffe and watched me work that if they were still on the property in minute I was shooting.
The one kid (28) brings his big ass trailr and parks in on my lawn He says," I need that for later on today." I don't know if he was planning to work in the dark later cause we had an all day job. Then he is milling around staring at woodpiles and daydreamimg, spitting all over the place and really irritateing me.
So J fiinally rolls in around ten. He is sipping coffee ( always leaving his trash around sometimes in the clients yard) and standing there waiting for someone to tell him what to do. He decided to excavate the foundation of his house last month; he thought it would take a few hours. He was busy all month on it. So I thanked him for showing up and told him the truck was dead and that he could go home. He was still standing there by the time I got into my outback and went looking for the oil guy who screwed up my house.
Of course by 8 am before all this the spill crew was busy sawing , digging and ripping away in the driveway while I was trying to get the loader loaded. I had to get another adapter for the lights on the trailer cause the dinglebarries can't do anything unless you tell them 4 or five times and lost the old one. I guess its my fault I picked up the wrong adapter this time.
One day the conncter fell off and was trashed by grinding on the road. I showed J how to wrap the wires and still had the same problem I after I fixed it last week. Once I went to look at the hitch and he didn't even put the pin in the lock. It was right there, tied to the hitch. This ain't his first day. I hate dill does. He don't pay attention and I can't pay for that crap.
Really if we all had a nickle...
So F it, really. I will stick to jobs I can do alone. It is actually easier for me to hook up my chipper by myself anyway if you could possibly beleive that.
I called Josh Lord and said " I got good news and bad, the good is that my dump truck needs a tow and I just told everybody to scram, the bad is that I will be in tommorow morning". Trust me, he got worse problems than me but...
so back to J. This guy will sit there riding shotgun on the way to job, when he gets out of the truck its OJ and doughnut time plus the constant cigarette smoke I gotta breath when he is watching bust my ass. Add in the radio earmuffs and its real bad.
i do smoke but really nowhere near as much as anybody else. 2 packs of camel wides a day? Plus all the pot? Way more than me.
I do know other people to call for help but I don't want to. Not worth it. I will get my fix for the big sticks subbing again and putz around with shrubs and smaller trees ALONE. Besides the way it is around here with so many people getting into tree work I am sick of being a " to do" on someone elses agenda. Just for the record, The Dan wasn't very hard to underbid. Some of these mexican pushers were thousands less. I asked Chris the wood dealer what he charges, he thought so I could underbid him. Actually quite the opposite.
I really was the type of guy to understand the need to MOVE on these jobs we do. I don't recall my fanny ever coming in contact with the chipper hopper and alwyas tried to see where I should be next to help out instead of being a burden. I can't expect someone to pay me while I sip coffe and watch unless they said they would and that hasn't happen yet.
I also wonder about these companies who look for climber/ forepersons to run the show. I think its wrong to ask climber to be foreman. How is he supposed to foreman everybody while he is up there? I usually didn't take the job if I was supposed to do everything, to hard, not my problem.
when I started this business I did it with the mindset if I had a problem getting help I could just do jobs myself. I have, its not really any harder though its true, you can't do them all solo.
So maybe if there is no one else that can help you and you can tolerate me I can come work for you? With you that is, I never worked a day in my life for someone else.
Beleive me MDS if one of those baboons ran a open truck door into something I would not be so relaxed right now. I remember at Treeco's place I used to roll those zig zag cigarettes and evrybody thought it was so cool ( I was just poor) they kept asking me so every ten minutes there they were trying to roll smokes while on the job site. I could see why Dan would get a little pissed at that, it was actually bothering me, very distracting but then I can roll a smoke in a second with one hand but not every ten minutes.. I was glad he said something about it I was tired of being bothered handing out smokes when I had stuff to do. I was kinda neat to watch them light those crappily rolled smokes though, they would just poof up real fast and scare em.
Oh well, I am certainly not going looking for any help as I know better. I will plant these 3 15 foot white spruce trees by myself ( once the truck is fixed) and I will not be handing any money over to a slacker. I know I was nuts on jobs sometimes, least I was there.

 

[treemandan]

finding employees that follow directions and that can also think for themselves appropriately-- see the forest for the trees.

Seasonality of the work.

People only wanting the cheapest price.

I think its " can't see the forest because of the trees"?

 

[tree MDS]

Wow 2 packs of camel wides a day - thats even worse than me, lol. Them big a$$ cigs are disgusting, lol. I also find it easier to just hook up the chipper myself, especially the trailer, I'm always doing good until some moron steps in and blocks my view of the side. I also love when they guide you on crocked and them start trying to muscle 6800 pounds around...just let em struggle awhile, thats what I do now, lol. The door wasnt open that time they hit the trailer or I would have killed probably. I still sucks to have a constant reminder of those two losers though. I had one guy that used to start the morning off eating all kinds of crap, do you know how bad jerky smells with a hangover dan? I'd say "what is it lunch already"?, he would reply "dude I didnt eat anything at all yesterday, and I was up all night wrenching on this tranny" etc. Thanks alot A hole! How much am I paying yer dumb a$$? Had another guy with no teeth for a little while, "Toothless" was his nickname - not to his face. He was trying to bilk he former employer's ins. so him and his old lady suddenly decided to go to the dentist, well they were getting several teeth pulled per week, its all I heard about. That only lasted a week, trust me - oh yeah Toothless liked to blow up the bathroom at the local gas station/convience store - that was embarrassing for sure. CDL but no teeth. I guess you cant have it all, lol. Fired! Sometimes I think I've been doing this too long and it makes it hard to work with people that suck. Dont give up dan, ya cant let them beat you. Then there was "chuck the sweatrag" He got into some towels at the shop and cut them all up into rags so he could drape them all over the truck - when I fired him I also asked that he please take those FN things with him. I changed that seat. Chuck was the one that shaved his arms and wore moose - yes he was fat and yes it was very hot for chuck's short term here. Thank heavens for the partime crew, those guys kick a$$ with me. I've got many more stories like that though, it just goes on and on throughout the year. I gave them all nicknames, kind of therapeutic for me that way, lol. But as I said you cant give up - I cant! too much invested.

 

[tree MDS]

Just though I'd share some of my past misery with you and the others dan, I trust everyone will enjoy that.

 

[treemandan]

Wow 2 packs of camel wides a day - thats even worse than me, lol. Them big a$$ cigs are disgusting, lol. I also find it easier to just hook up the chipper myself, especially the trailer, I'm always doing good until some moron steps in and blocks my view of the side. I also love when they guide you on crocked and them start trying to muscle 6800 pounds around...just let em struggle awhile, thats what I do now, lol. The door wasnt open that time they hit the trailer or I would have killed probably. I still sucks to have a constant reminder of those two losers though. I had one guy that used to start the morning off eating all kinds of crap, do you know how bad jerky smells with a hangover dan? I'd say "what is it lunch already"?, he would reply "dude I didnt eat anything at all yesterday, and I was up all night wrenching on this tranny" etc. Thanks alot A hole! How much am I paying yer dumb a$$? Had another guy with no teeth for a little while, "Toothless" was his nickname - not to his face. He was trying to bilk he former employer's ins. so him and his old lady suddenly decided to go to the dentist, well they were getting several teeth pulled per week, its all I heard about. That only lasted a week, trust me - oh yeah Toothless liked to blow up the bathroom at the local gas station/convience store - that was embarrassing for sure. CDL but no teeth. I guess you cant have it all, lol. Fired! Sometimes I think I've been doing this too long and it makes it hard to work with people that suck. Dont give up dan, ya cant let them beat you. Then there was "chuck the sweatrag" He got into some towels at the shop and cut them all up into rags so he could drape them all over the truck - when I fired him I also asked that he please take those FN things with him. I changed that seat. Chuck was the one that shaved his arms and wore moose - yes he was fat and yes it was very hot for chuck's short term here. Thank heavens for the partime crew, those guys kick a$$ with me. I've got many more stories like that though, it just goes on and on throughout the year. I gave them all nicknames, kind of therapeutic for me that way, lol. But as I said you cant give up - I cant! too much invested.

I am not giving up, I am sticking to the plan. ( HEY BARACK JUST CALLED ME!) Anyway, that was one of my earlier points I was trying to make with you way back when.
Well maybe two points but really you could pay a guy a million dollars and he would just stand there and watch you back into something, maybe giggle.
So, the point was: Why would a seemlingy normal man complete with all the facets of common sense go out and buy all this stuff you need to do this work, get so wrapped up in something that relies on having suitable people do it and having to adapt everyday to so many other variables to the point where your own morals are compromised. You stink like drink? Get the F out before I puke on you. I have to say I partied on my own time. I hated to go to work under-ready.
When I hired J we talked about it and then we agree to work together and THEN he tells me he drinks a case a day. Really, if some stinking bi%^$# got in one of those yotas back then I just hit the gas til I almost ran into the chipper then jammed on the brakes. You have to be able to hold your breakfast. That is how the passenger side door got bent on the black yota; from the guy getting his puking ass kicked out of it. right by the side of the road, went back to following the chipper and thinking about my job.

 

[tree MDS]

Its all I know and I love it. Someday I'll get someone I can work with. Right now its dead anyway, so I do what I can with subs here and there. This saturday we had a combined total of like 70 years exp. between three of us out on this big a$$ oak, thats when it gets good out there. Keeping sane during slow times can be hard though.

 

[tree MDS]

After a while I can kind of see how some people in this biz just let it all slip and give in and become hacks - just send out whoever to go hack with the bucket, just destroy it all, who cares. Me I cant even hardly bear to let someone else make a prunning cut on one of my trees, takedowns yes if they are good.

 

[treemandan]

After a while I can kind of see how some people in this biz just let it all slip and give in and become hacks - just send out whoever to go hack with the bucket, just destroy it all, who cares. Me I cant even hardly bear to let someone else make a prunning cut on one of my trees, takedowns yes if they are good.

That was another point I tired to make. Treeco, I love you, always have always will, can't stop it. Just one thing; You want to uphold the ethics of arboriculture? I am sorry for my atittude but I didn't think that was possible.
I did try to see past it but you can see how I might have had a problem huh? And you tried to blame it on something else?

gets to the point where anybody would want at shot at the big tree work dollers. Sure got me fired up ( that was a complete joke).

 

[B-Edwards]

I closed my biz down after the heart attack. I am pretty sure that the help gave me the heart attack and I know it was my biggest problem. I read the local paper this week and my top guy was in it , he had been arrested for selling meth. I couldnt hire anything but drunks and dope heads of course they told me they didnt use drugs or anything. I cant imagine staying in business with the help that is available today. Good luck to you guys toughing it out.

 

[treemandan]

I closed my biz down after the heart attack. I am pretty sure that the help gave me the heart attack and I know it was my biggest problem. I read the local paper this week and my top guy was in it , he had been arrested for selling meth. I couldnt hire anything but drunks and dope heads of course they told me they didnt use drugs or anything. I cant imagine staying in business with the help that is available today. Good luck to you guys toughing it out.

Another point I tried to make is that would you spend your life climbing trees when top rate is under what they pay for other work? I guess if you did you might wanna get high too. No one ever pays a groundie very much either so why would one want to stay around?

 

[B-Edwards]

I payed in my area more than anyone else doing the same . My guys had it made compared to when I worked for big orange or the other companies i worked for. I treated them very well. (in my eyes) Im done working anyone else in the tree biz. Most guys I have known who do tree work were always wreckless desperate types. On monday mornings you never knew who had sccrewed who's wife who was in jail who had killed someone. I have to admit it is so much of a relief to be away from those type people.

 

[treemandan]

I payed in my area more than anyone else doing the same . My guys had it made compared to when I worked for big orange or the other companies i worked for. I treated them very well. (in my eyes) Im done working anyone else in the tree biz. Most guys I have known who do tree work were always wreckless desperate types. On monday mornings you never knew who had sccrewed who's wife who was in jail who had killed someone. I have to admit it is so much of a relief to be away from those type people.

Sad to say if you did it like Aspy you probably would have made out great.

 

[tree MDS]

Sad to say if you did it like Aspy you probably would have made out great.

That's sort of what I was getting at. Maybe I just don't have the bankroll and lack of conscience to make real money in this biz. Just let em lose. Nah, not my style. Another point is: what if we let every drunk potbellied old dude that says he's a climber go up trees for us indescriminately? what then? Thats why I got the bucket, I cant afford the sort of help I really need full time yet, good people are expensive and you gotta have the work. Its a real accomplishment to first put together a crew that is good - and another accomplishment to maintain that crew over the years. I only know one person in this biz locally that has managed it for years, and my hat goes off to that man because it aint easy I'm sure. Not to mention that he still cant find an additional guy - and has the same struggles like we speak of with the new help. Its hard for sure, it takes a certain kind of freak for this work. I still love it, I just keep thinking: "it takes time".

 

[custom8726]

That's sort of what I was getting at. Maybe I just don't have the bankroll and lack of conscience to make real money in this biz. Just let em lose. Nah, not my style. Another point is: what if we let every drunk potbellied old dude that says he's a climber go up trees for us indescriminately? what then? Thats why I got the bucket, I cant afford the sort of help I really need full time yet, good people are expensive and you gotta have the work. Its a real accomplishment to first put together a crew that is good - and another accomplishment to maintain that crew over the years. I only know one person in this biz locally that has managed it for years, and my hat goes off to that man because it aint easy I'm sure. Not to mention that he still cant find an additional guy - and has the same struggles like we speak of with the new help. Its hard for sure, it takes a certain kind of freak for this work. I still love it, I just keep thinking: "it takes time".

How much time I wonder:monkey: I know I asked before but how long have you ran the show so to speak? Good employees are hard to find, and even harder to keep. It really gets discouraging when you train someone the ins and outs just to have them go to a competitor or start there own gig. But hey thats the way it goes, and how most all of us got started in the first place.

 

[tree MDS]

[/U][/B]

How much time I wonder:monkey: I know I asked before but how long have you ran the show so to speak? Good employees are hard to find, and even harder to keep. It really gets discouraging when you train someone the ins and outs just to have them go to a competitor or start there own gig. But hey thats the way it goes, and how most all of us got started in the first place.

This is 12 years now on my own. More seriously getting into it lately though - or more invested I should say. I think to get good help and keep them around for the long haul, your biz must have to be bulletproof or something... maybe its just me.