Portable Inverter Generator to Power Deep Submersible Well Pump

[Husky Joe]

I know this may not be the best place on the web to post this question, but I'm hoping one of us self-sufficient types will respond. I'm looking into inverter generators to power two refrigerators and a chest freezer and some electronics. It would be nice to be able to watch TV during a power outage but I work at home and it would also be nice to be able to work. If a tree comes down across the power lines and takes out the power, it's probably going to take out the TV and Internet cable as well, so TV isn't the highest priority. I live in the boonies and I built my house in 2008 with a pretty deep well (340 feet deep, if I recall). I can't find anything in my paperwork about the size of the submersible well pump. Best guess is it would be at least 1 hp? As you know by now, the question I'm leading up to is if it would be possible to power my submersible well pump with a portable inverter generator and if so, how big and I'm certainly open to make and model recommendations. I was pretty sold on the Westinghouse iGen4500 for the refrigerators, freezer, and electronics But it looks like it is strictly 120 V. I see that some of the non-inverter generators have a lot more watts but they aren't recommended for sensitive electronics, which would likely include my newer refrigerator and probably the deep-freeze. I see that the well pump and control are wired to my panel box with a 20 amp breaker. It appears that the pump itself is "3 wire," if that makes sense. Any chance I could get an electrician to wire up a disconnect so that I could shut off the breaker, flip the power switch on the disconnect, and pump enough water into my holding tank as needed? I could shut off the other appliances and electronics during the fill up and then once my tank is full, turn everything back on. Cooking and heating aren't big issues with a wood-burning stove and gas grill.
I've done a lot of research on this but there doesn't seem to be an easy answer. I see some guys doing a workaround but I guess I question the safety…
Thanks for any help!

 

[grizz55chev]

I know this may not be the best place on the web to post this question, but I'm hoping one of us self-sufficient types will respond. I'm looking into inverter generators to power two refrigerators and a chest freezer and some electronics. It would be nice to be able to watch TV during a power outage but I work at home and it would also be nice to be able to work. If a tree comes down across the power lines and takes out the power, it's probably going to take out the TV and Internet cable as well, so TV isn't the highest priority. I live in the boonies and I built my house in 2008 with a pretty deep well (340 feet deep, if I recall). I can't find anything in my paperwork about the size of the submersible well pump. Best guess is it would be at least 1 hp? As you know by now, the question I'm leading up to is if it would be possible to power my submersible well pump with a portable inverter generator and if so, how big and I'm certainly open to make and model recommendations. I was pretty sold on the Westinghouse iGen4500 for the refrigerators, freezer, and electronics But it looks like it is strictly 120 V. I see that some of the non-inverter generators have a lot more watts but they aren't recommended for sensitive electronics, which would likely include my newer refrigerator and probably the deep-freeze. I see that the well pump and control are wired to my panel box with a 20 amp breaker. It appears that the pump itself is "3 wire," if that makes sense. Any chance I could get an electrician to wire up a disconnect so that I could shut off the breaker, flip the power switch on the disconnect, and pump enough water into my holding tank as needed? I could shut off the other appliances and electronics during the fill up and then once my tank is full, turn everything back on. Cooking and heating aren't big issues with a wood-burning stove and gas grill.
I've done a lot of research on this but there doesn't seem to be an easy answer. I see some guys doing a workaround but I guess I question the safety…
Thanks for any help!

I'm not an expert, so take what I say with that in mind. 3 wire I believe is 220 volts, and your well pump will require more than 4500 watts. Also, you don't need an inverter gen set to run the well, those inverters are quite expensive, like twice as much as a conventional generator. Unfortunately, I don't have a simple, economical answer for your situation . I'm sure there will be someone along with more input, good luck. Our power company ( PG+E ) shuts our grid down quite often in the summer due to fire danger and in the winter we experience frequent power loss due to our remote location and trees across the power lines, so I run a 4kw gas genny ( not an inverter ) to keep the household appliances and lights up and running, I don't own much in the way of sensitive electronics, just an old modem and I-Pad, 15 yr old fridge with no electronics, and our 10 yr old flat screen TV. The genny does a good job of keeping us running, but my well is also 220 volts, and needs more that the gas generator can supply, so I also acquired a used diesel 5 kw gen for a bargain that I use to run the well pump. Both Generators are over 20 yrs old and I do regular maintenance on them so they should last a long time.the biggest drawback with the diesel is its NOISY! In winter, that's not a big deal as the windows are closed, but in the summer, I only run it long enough to pumpup the well, then shut it down! Good luck with your situation, I'll be watching.

 

[Husky Joe]

Grizz, thanks for the quick and detailed reply. Other than major books for a whole house generator, there doesn't seem to be an easy (economical) one-size-fits-all solution. We have a creek nearby where we could grab water for flushing and I can stockpile some cases of bottled water for drinking and brushing teeth and whatnot. Running water would be sweet but…
Keep watching---I will be too!

 

[frank_]

i think the capacitor is above ground on a 3 wire pump ? and you will probably need pure sine wave for electronic stuff ?

 

[grizz55chev]

Grizz, thanks for the quick and detailed reply. Other than major books for a whole house generator, there doesn't seem to be an easy (economical) one-size-fits-all solution. We have a creek nearby where we could grab water for flushing and I can stockpile some cases of bottled water for drinking and brushing teeth and whatnot. Running water would be sweet but…
Keep watching---I will be too!

We fill the bath tub for planned power outages, then use a bucket to fill the toilet tank for flushing. We also fill used gallon milk jugs for drinkin- cooking water. We keep a dozen or so of these ready at all times, and date them with a marker to keep track of how long they are stored. We heat with wood primarily, with propane as the backup, cooking is propane, hot water is on demand tankless propane, so we are well adapted to our particular situation. With regards to economy, the diesel genny IS by far the most economical way to powerour needs, but the noise factor necessitates the gas genny for summer use, as already stated.

 

[ammoaddict]

"How Many Watts Does A Well Pump Use? (Find Out Now!) – Upgraded Home" https://upgradedhome.com/how-many-watts-does-a-well-pump-use/

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[grizz55chev]

i think the capacitor is above ground on a 3 wire pump ? and you will probably need pure sine wave for electronic stuff ?

I have some electronics stuff, and my non sinewave gennys have caused no problems, YET. As stated before,, nothing I have is newer, so Your milage may vary. And yes, the controller for the pump which would include the capacitor is above ground.

 

[ammoaddict]

I have some electronics stuff, and my non sinewave gennys have caused no problems, YET. As stated before,, nothing I have is newer, so Your milage may vary. And yes, the controller for the pump which would include the capacitor is above ground.

My pump does not have a capacitor above ground. It on has the pressure switch and the bladder tank.

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[grizz55chev]

My pump does not have a capacitor above ground. It on has the pressure switch and the bladder tank.

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No controller? Ours has a box called Welltrol that has a built in timer and sensor to detect spikes in amperage that automatically turns off the pump for a predetermined time so that the pump doesn't run continuously in the event of a leak which could damage the pump. That is where the cap is located on our system. We also have a bladder tank and pressure switch.

 

[sean donato]

So I have a pretty similar set up to you, save my well is 384 feet so should be close to the same rating. I have a 5kw gen that powers everything except the hot water heater without issue. It's a Mosa with an air-cooled yanmar diesel engine. I'm sure there are similar generators gas powered that would meet your requirements. This gen has a surge rating to 6.2kw. My back up ask up is a 5kw surge and closer to 4kw running. If I'm mindful with power usage I can let the well pump run And keep the fridge and deep freeze going. Minimal lights at that point. The TV and stuff doesn't seem to mind a standard generator.

 

[ammoaddict]

No controller? Ours has a box called Welltrol that has a built in timer and sensor to detect spikes in amperage that automatically turns off the pump for a predetermined time so that the pump doesn't run continuously in the event of a leak which could damage the pump. That is where the cap is located on our system. We also have a bladder tank and pressure switch.

That is a great idea, but no mine doesn't have that. If I would have had it professionally installed they may have suggested something like that, but I installed mine myself over 20 years ago and didn't really know such a thing existed to be honest.

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[CentaurG2]

Gold standard for portable generators is Honda eu7000. I have the carb version (6500) and it will power the whole house (gen panel) with the exception of the range and dryer. It uses some technology (eco throttle) that allows the generator to run at whatever RPM matches the load. Saves a boatload of fuel. It is also mouse fart quiet. You could use it as a pillow. Unfortunately, Honda is very proud of these machines and they don’t give them away. I don’t even know if any are still available due to supply chain issues.



Honda EU7000iS Super Quiet Inverter Generator | Honda Generators

 

[J D]

If by "3 wire" you mean 3 phase then your pump should have 3 fuses. If it is single phase it will likely still have 3 wires (phase, neutral, & earth) but will only have a breaker on the phase wire. If it's a standard breaker it would generally be sized 50-100% greater than the pump is rated to prevent nuisance tripping on startup. So assuming single phase through a standard breaker & doing the maths backwards my educated guess would be that the motor is under 1.5kW.
You would still need to size your generator to allow for the additional startup current as well as the rest of your household loading. If you do indeed have 3 phase wiring you would need a generator that supports that too.
Most modern electronics with switching power supplies will run fine on any properly regulated power source. A lot of older electronics or devices that use a transformer or ac motors (microwaves, fridges, etc) will need a "true sine wave" AC power supply. These are generally more expensive (as are 3 phase units) so pays to do your homework & know what you need before you start throwing money at it

 

[frank_]

i think 2 wire will be an onboard capacitor pump, and 3 wire a deeper well with separate capacitor bigger pump (3hp ish)

 

[ammoaddict]

If by "3 wire" you mean 3 phase then your pump should have 3 fuses. If it is single phase it will likely still have 3 wires (phase, neutral, & earth) but will only have a breaker on the phase wire. If it's a standard breaker it would generally be sized 50-100% greater than the pump is rated to prevent nuisance tripping on startup. So assuming single phase through a standard breaker & doing the maths backwards my educated guess would be that the motor is under 1.5kW.
You would still need to size your generator to allow for the additional startup current as well as the rest of your household loading. If you do indeed have 3 phase wiring you would need a generator that supports that too.
Most modern electronics with switching power supplies will run fine on any properly regulated power source. A lot of older electronics or devices that use a transformer or ac motors (microwaves, fridges, etc) will need a "true sine wave" AC power supply. These are generally more expensive (as are 3 phase units) so pays to do your homework & know what you need before you start throwing money at it

Here in the USA, a three wire is actually 4 wires including the earth ground. Most deep well pumps are 220 volt, so there are 2 conductors each with 110 volts that connect to a double pole breaker, then a neutral wire and an earth ground.

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[sean donato]

No controller? Ours has a box called Welltrol that has a built in timer and sensor to detect spikes in amperage that automatically turns off the pump for a predetermined time so that the pump doesn't run continuously in the event of a leak which could damage the pump. That is where the cap is located on our system. We also have a bladder tank and pressure switch.

Moat modern pressure switches have this built in. The cap may or may not be in the cut off box, most caps are not down at the pump motor.

If by "3 wire" you mean 3 phase then your pump should have 3 fuses. If it is single phase it will likely still have 3 wires (phase, neutral, & earth) but will only have a breaker on the phase wire. If it's a standard breaker it would generally be sized 50-100% greater than the pump is rated to prevent nuisance tripping on startup. So assuming single phase through a standard breaker & doing the maths backwards my educated guess would be that the motor is under 1.5kW.
You would still need to size your generator to allow for the additional startup current as well as the rest of your household loading. If you do indeed have 3 phase wiring you would need a generator that supports that too.
Most modern electronics with switching power supplies will run fine on any properly regulated power source. A lot of older electronics or devices that use a transformer or ac motors (microwaves, fridges, etc) will need a "true sine wave" AC power supply. These are generally more expensive (as are 3 phase units) so pays to do your homework & know what you need before you start throwing money at it

Unless his wiring is from 1950, 220 volt single phase is called a 3 wire with ground (4 total wires) typically a true 3 phase well pump will have a phase converter in the house where the wiring exits the foundation. They would also not have a capacitor as 3 phase doesn't need a cap to start. There are soft start systems for deep well pumps to stave off the inrush in startup. These are typically newer systems and very expensive options.
And just an FYI switching power supplies and normal transformers don't give two hoots if your generator is a pure sine wave or not, and are made to work just fine with a fairly wide hertz range. It's more getting a generator that isn't a pos and doesn't hunt under load. Gen tech hasnt changed much and the pure sine wave inverter is more a sales pitch then anything. Everything from hospitals to grocery stores have standard generators with an automatic voltage regulator and their electronics work just fine. Just the same as our smaller portable gens work just fine on generator power.

 

[J D]

Just did some reading on the 2 phase (ie 220V center tapped) side of things... Makes sense now. My previous post is still valid, but if it were 2 phases at 220V it would be through a dual breaker & potentially providing twice the power

 

[sean donato]

Just did some reading on the 2 phase (ie 220V center tapped) side of things... Makes sense now. My previous post is still valid, but if it were 2 phases at 220V it would be through a dual breaker & potentially providing twice the power

220v is still considered single phase, (in the usa)it has duel breakers but they are for each of the two legs. Each leg would pull no more then x amount of amps or it would trip both breakers.
Im not super familiar with 3 phase power, but I believe 220 3 phase is used over seas, we're normally 208 then 480 volts.
I've linked a fairly good article for the phases and where they are used, along with it has some nice diagrams for how they are tapped, and a chart for where they are commonly found.
https://ctlsys.com/support/electrical_service_types_and_voltages/

 

[Ted Jenkins]

There are many ways to occomplish what you are asking about. All you need to do is look at your service panels to get a rough Idea of the size of generation you need. If you have three phase to your house which is not common then you will need to work from that. A water tank wih a pressurized bladder will give a certain amount of water with out electricity.5,000 watts is common for a average home. So likely 10,000 wtts needed. Or set up a solar system with a battery which supply your electrical needs for a short amount of time. Or elevate a tank and allow gavity feed to the house. Thanks

 

[sb47]

I have 2 of the Honda EU3000is gens that I have been using for 15 years. They are rock solid and supper quiet and sip fuel like fine wine.
Whoever they are only rated at 120. I can Link them together with the supplied jumper and get 30amps but still at 120V.
They do make the EU5000is and I think that one will run 220V. They are also very quiet and i'm sure they will sip fuel as well.
If I up grade I'm going with a Honda diesel 7000. That way my fuel will store longer and get longer run times and better fuel economy.
The problem with bigger gens is they cost more fuel to run but if thats what you need then it's the price you pay to keep things running.
During power outages many like to have a gen that can run the whole house and thats fine if you can afford the unit and fuel to keep it running 24/7.
With a smaller unit you will have to power manage and turn some things off before you turn other things on.
The Honda EU3000is has an echo mode where the gen only runs just hard enough to power what you are using, and if you turn on something else it will automatically increase the RPM to match. Mine holds 3 gallons and will run about 9 hours at full RPM, but in echo mode it will run 16 hours on 3 gallons.
And yes most all Honda's have a built in inverter.
As for TV I have plenty of DVD's and I have 4 TB of downloaded stuff from the internet by using a Youtube down loader. Movies, TV shows, comedy, racing, sports, or anything else that may interest you. Get you a down loaded library going and just keep filling up your HD.
Both my Honda's have worked flawlessly for 15 years and are so quiet that you can be standing 20 feet away and not even hear it.