Possible HUGE job, 9 cottonwoods.

[benglehart]

Im new to the business. Worked 2 years as a groundsman, and 1 year as a sub-climber.
I feel very comfortable in trees, and have recently bought myself climbing gear, 2 saws, rope, truck, and safety equipment.

Heres where I need some help. I was passing out fliers today and came across a guy with 9 large cottonwoods in his front yard. All ranging from between 3-4 foot diameter at base. So not too huge, but pretty huge, very tall.

He told me he wants them all gone including the stumps. It would be a blessing for me to get this job, Im just starting out and its rough not having any clients.

I told him I would come back tomorrow with a written estimate so I could have time to come here and ask for help, and time for myself to try and figure out how exactly to price this.

There arent many obstacles, although I dont know how he feels about ground damage (grass).

I realize its impossible to quote without being there, but an estimate would be great.

Ive never done a job this large, but I want to. So any help and information on the matter would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you, Brent

 

[ddhlakebound]

You're probably just the guy he's been lookin for....Hungry, green, and clientless. Did you ask him how many others have priced this job before, and why it isn't done yet?

If you end up with the job, where is the debris going? How's it getting there?

2 saws is a pretty normal startup thing, what are they, and do you think they'll handle 3'-4' cottonwoods without taking f-o-r-e-v-e-r?

As far as pricing the job, you'll need to figure out what it'll cost you to do the job, and how much you need to make on top of that to profit and grow.

Honestly, this sounds out of your ballpark at the moment, unless you've got some debris hauling capacity not mentioned above. I could see you spending a month there with just a pickup.

If I was gonna stupidly throw out a number with only a rough description, no pics, and no details, I'll guess $12k. But that's for my area....probably a bit cheaper than yours.

 

[Bermie]

Find out EXACTLY how he feels about ground damage, nothing worse than doing a job and having them complain about damage after the fact...also make sure there is no infrastructure underground to be damaged from bombing bits. Leave no grey areas!!!

Make sure you have covered all your expenses and add enough of a cushion so you don't get caught short if something unexpected comes up, its bad form to have to go to the client and ask for extra time and $$$. You can always knock some off if you come in under estimate.

Don't underestimate the cleanup time and charges...sounds like you'll have to hire some extra equipment or sub some of the cleanup...?

 

[benglehart]

Thank you both for your replies!

Lakebound, I can keep most of the logs, so it would be about a 15 minute drive to drop them. AND I have a guy that takes firewood, for free, and he picks it up from the job. But even still at that, yes it would be horrible Im guessing because all I have is a pickup.

The saws I have are a 16'' stihl 200T, and a stihl ms361 with a 20'' bar.

And Bermie, yes that sounds smart, and I wish I would have asked him that already so I would have already known.

=/

Thank you guys and please any more info/tips would be so greatly appreciated.

 

[pdqdl]

Not very many people will take cottonwood for firewood. It's very wet and heavy, then finally dries out enough to burn up fast with not much heat.

Don't forget about that "wet & heavy" when you bid to load it and haul it off.

I would find someone with a grapple truck; get a price per truckload hauled away. Any other method is inefficient by comparison.

 

[benglehart]

Im going to take a picture of it tomorrow and post it up here.

I really appreciate everybodies help. Trying to figure out how Im going to remove this wood now, and if this is possible for me to do.

Crazy feeling.

Thanks all,
Brent

 

[treemandan]

You're probably just the guy he's been lookin for....Hungry, green, and clientless. Did you ask him how many others have priced this job before, and why it isn't done yet?

If you end up with the job, where is the debris going? How's it getting there?

2 saws is a pretty normal startup thing, what are they, and do you think they'll handle 3'-4' cottonwoods without taking f-o-r-e-v-e-r?

As far as pricing the job, you'll need to figure out what it'll cost you to do the job, and how much you need to make on top of that to profit and grow.

Honestly, this sounds out of your ballpark at the moment, unless you've got some debris hauling capacity not mentioned above. I could see you spending a month there with just a pickup.

If I was gonna stupidly throw out a number with only a rough description, no pics, and no details, I'll guess $12k. But that's for my area....probably a bit cheaper than yours.

Good points.

 

[Bearcreek]

Time to invest in a bigger saw. Cutting a 4' tree with a 20" bar is going to an enormous pain in the ass, besides being unsafe.

 

[rarefish383]

I'm close to lakebound on a blind price. I figured at least $1500 per tree. It may cut into your proffit at first glance, rent bigger equipment. A Vermeer BC1000 will chip all the brush and wood up to 10in easily, and they go for about $300 a day. If he let you blow the chips in a pile all you would have to do is get rid of the big wood. If you have to haul the chips rent a duel axle dump trailer. If you can dump the chips the same place you're putting the wood you could get rid of a lot of chips in one day. If you have a 3/4 ton truck and could pull a big duel axle chipper with a winch the only thing you'ld have left to haul is the trunks. Hire a knuckle boom to do that. Do the job in bites. Can you leave the brush in piles? Work it so you only rent a piece of equipment the day you need it. Get 3 on the ground, rent the chipper, 3 more, rent the chipper. Rent a big saw too. Put a free wood sign up too. If you can get wood on the ground and have room to work on other trees the free wood hounds will jump on it.

This sounds like a big bite for a starter job. $1500 @ tree would be a cheap price for big Cottonwoods in MD. There are stumps on big trees like that, that I charge $750 to do. If he knows you're starting he knows he's getting a deal. See if he'll let you do 3 and get paid and then do 3 more. Bid the stumps as a seperate job so you can rent a big stump grinder and try to knock out all the stumps in one or two days. Don't even think about one of those little Dosco grinders. Go to Sun Belt or try Vermeer and rent the biggest stump grinder you can. I could probably do 3 or 4 of those stumps a day with my Vermeer 630A, and that would be a long hard day. If I had 9 stumps that big I'd consider renting a bigger machine my self just to get it done in one day. Call around and get a price to have some one else sub the stumps out.

The problem with a job like this for a small/new guy is having the cash to rent equipment and pay for a sub contractor to do the heavy work. If you try to do this with one helper it's gonna take a month and KNOCK THE SNOT right out of you.

My best guess of $1500 per, is tree and debri only, not the stumps. Definatly try to at least get the stumps on a seperate ticket, so you can get a check in your pocket before you have to rent the grinder. Plus, your'e gonna need a day off to recover. Best of luck, Joe.

PS Somehow you got lucky and missed my lecture about doing dangerous work with out being licensed and insured.

 

[mattfr12]

Im going to take a picture of it tomorrow and post it up here.

I really appreciate everybodies help. Trying to figure out how Im going to remove this wood now, and if this is possible for me to do.

Crazy feeling.

Thanks all,
Brent

where are you located at in ohio? subcontract the cleanup maybe? if you where close enough and it was worth my while i would send a crew out to clean it up. our mack grapple and morbark hurricane can clean up a jobsite pretty quick. i have a truck and chipper sitting in bellaire OH at the moment

 

[benglehart]

Rarefish, thanks a TON for your thought out reply. Great info I really appreciate it. I have been doing some thinking and I have an Uncle who has a backhoe + backhoe trailer. I havent got ahold of him yet, but Im thinking it may work for me to pay him to haul away the logs. ANy ideas on that?

And, I am licensed and WILL be insured. Tree Men & a Chainsaw =). Business license came 3 days ago, and already know who Im going through for 500k liability as soon as I have a job that requires it.


Matt, Im from Toledo Ohio. Let me post these pics first, and go from there.



Just took them today. Couldnt figure out how to get them on here so Im using photobucket. Pictures are in order, first shot of them is the lower half, second picture is top half. Then 3rd picture is lower half, 4th is upper half. Thought it was 9 but its actually 8....kinda. Some are connected at base. **EDIT** Tried doing thumbnails, not very computer savy.

http://s1042.photobucket.com/albums/b428/benglehart/Cottonwoods/


Thank you guys so much,
Brent

 

[BC WetCoast]

I would inquire about getting a dumpster bin dropped off. You can load chips and wood into it. Around here, its about $3-400 a load and you can keep the bin for as long as you need.

You really have to decide how you want to do this. Are you going to bring in a large crew and really pound this out, or you and another guy whittle away at it for a month. The first way is riskier because you have more expenses, whereas in the second scenario, if you have underbid, you have fewer expenses and it's only your own wages that will be cut.

One of the dilemmas of getting a large job when you are first starting, is that it takes a large amount of your time and energy when you need to be spreading your name, pounding out little jobs, increasing your satisfied client list and learning how to bid.

 

[PFirebird]

Benglehart,
We've removed quite a lot of Big cottonwoods and they are one tree that can really fool you when it comes to size. You estimated the trunk diameter, I'd get a tape and measure it so you know exactly what you have. Also measure the height, as accurately as you can. Most Cottonwoods are taller than they look on a clear day.
Also, we use a local sawyer to come and pick up large cottonwood logs, he gets them for free- a real time saver.
I also make it a practice to be very clear with the HO, does he know how the lawn is going to look after, is he ok with the stump grinding leaving 5 yard piles of mulch at each tree location.
I think we're all giving you cautious advice because we've learned that small estimating errors on small jobs is ok, but on large jobs it usually makes the whole endeavor a nightmare.
Good luck, nail down the details.