possible skidder alternatives.

[Zackman1801]

hi, im sorry if this is in the wrong section or has been asked already but im new to these forums so if you could bear with me atleast this one time it would be much appreciated. Im looking into possible alternatives for a skidder since most are either very expensive or very large and most are both. Although this summer im looking into doing a small-medium sized logging operation on my families land near my home. Me and my grandfather are fixing up a small 10hp massey harris tractor that is pretty old (1951 model). the tractor was previously used to skid wood but looking at the condition its in and the size of the wood in the woods it seems that most of it will be Extremely difficult to skid with that machine if not impossible, this is because some of these trees are 80 feet tall and have a DBH of about 3 feet if not more. So my next question came up what can i buy that is cheaper than a 15,000$ skidder. I had a few possible things that i would like to run by people more experienced than me to see what people though of them.

A. buy an old mil surp M35 2.5ton truck and use it As is or modify it to pull the winch in the back and hoist up logs like a skidder.

b. an ATV with a winch to the rear,

I know that none of these alternatives will work as well as a skidder but i have to make due since i do not have the money to get into buying heavy machinery quite yet (but im hopefully going to get there someday)

any imput from experienced loggers would be much appreciated since im at a total loss at what to do here.

thanks
zackman

 

[joesawer]

I don't know what a massey harris 10 hp tractor is, but it would probably pull more than any ATV. You are simply are not going to skid 3' diameter logs with any atv.
A duece and a halve GI truck would pull a lot more but they are not very monuverable, would break a lot of parts and don't have power steering.
For what you would spend on either a 2 1/2 ton or an atv, I would suggest a used farm tractor in the 50+ hp size. It will not do anywhere near what a skidder will do, but it will out class the other two by a huge margin for skidding logs.

 

[Jacob J.]

You can do quite a bit with a good tractor like Joe said and use a skidding arch...

 

[Stihlboy088]

Look into a good used tractor (40 HP+) with loader and winch. What kind of trees will you be felling? and what time of year would you be looking at attempting to skid logs out? Skidding with frozen ground and snow cover is much easier, plus keeps the logs cleaner thus improving their quality.

 

[jon72]

Theres no alternative to a skidder!Army trucks and tractors won't be able to get out of their own tracks if we get much more snow.
I would suggest buying a decent 200 series Timberjack and selling it when your done.

 

[Zackman1801]

i realize that i am not going to get the same preformance out of a truck or tractor, or atv, but i just do not have any way of getting a skidder to me if i do buy one. i dont own any heavy equiptment or know any one who does to haul it to and from my house to my grandfathers or even from the site whre i bout it to my grandfathers. I do realize that the truck isnt as good and option but i found one for around 2,000 online and i was thinking about removing the bed, the last set of wheels, making it a 4x4 instead of 6x6, and then mounting and arch to the main frame of the truck and moving the winch to the rear to have a makeshift cable skidder. although i know that the massey harris tractor will not pull more that a skidder because the thing is very small, and with only 10hp its not going to be getting anywhere any time soon. and im also going to be skidding these logs in the early summer (summer break from school since i cant do it anytime else really) and in the fall on some weekends, im thinking that i will have the job done before winter but i dont know for sure although i will probably take the winter off anyways because its very hard to get into my grandfathers for a logging truck anyways so even if i had a load to have hauled it would be hard for them to get it.

 

[Husky137]

I would suggest buying a decent 200 series Timberjack and selling it when your done.

Yeah ,because used iron is selling like gang busters in this logging climate.

 

[Urbicide]

Welcome Zackman to AS. Have you consulted with a Forrester? I would think that Maine would have state Forrester's who would help you out immensely with planning a harvest and securing buyers. It would be foolish to attempt a harvest without a Forrester's assistance. The timber markets in many areas are not what you would want to call a seller's market. There are a lot of mills that have been idled or shut down completely. You cut your trees with out first having an agreement with a buyer and you are really screwed. If prices are currently depressed in your area then simply wait for them to go back up again and then make your harvest. Your trees will grow larger as you wait.


Stewardship & Landowner Assistance in Maine

http://na.fs.fed.us/stewardship/stewassist/me.htm

 

[JackD_ME]

Foresters up here in Maine often require a fee of 25% and THEY get the checks then divy up the funds!
The other option, (if you can find one who will do it), get more than $50 per hour and take several days to walk around & inspect your woodlot. Not to mention how poorly SOME of these guys mark woodlots!

I don't know about Zackman but I'm smart enough to know to stay away from the local "foresters"!

 

[Urbicide]

Foresters up here in Maine often require a fee of 25% and THEY get the checks then divy up the funds!
The other option, (if you can find one who will do it), get more than $50 per hour and take several days to walk around & inspect your woodlot.

I don't know about Zackman but I'm smart enough to know to stay away from the local "foresters"! Not to mention how poorly these guys mark woodlots!

So Jack what are you suggesting Zackman do? Should he just fell his trees and then go around asking mills if they want to buy his logs? I did not know that the Forresters in Maine were either thieves and/or incompetent.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

Contact my Alma Mater, Univ of Maine at Orono.
One of the finest Forestry Schools hands down. When I was there 30 years ago my roommate who was in the Forestry program used to go to all types forested areas for class projects to review timber and pulp and make proposals. These were all done as part of a curriculum with a full prof in charge. It was part of their studies.
No idea if they still do that type of program, but it's indeed worth a shot. Professional Forestry advice at no charge, worth the cost of a phone call.
Good Luck

 

[joesawer]

Even at 25% wich sounds steep unless for a small job. They could easily add more than that to the value of the harvest over a complete shot in the dark.

 

[sILlogger]

or you could buy a 440 JD log skidder in the 10-15,000 range, use if for you job, make some money with it and then resell it for the same money that you have in it
i know where one is right now for $11500, rebuilt winch, all around pretty good machine

 

[Husky137]

Even at 25% wich sounds steep unless for a small job. They could easily add more than that to the value of the harvest over a complete shot in the dark.

Too true. I've never heard of a forester taking a 25% cut, typically around 10-15%. Otherwise there simply isn't enough money to be divided between the forester, the land owner and the harvester.

Cutting without a plan or mill contacts is going to kill any hopes of making any money. A good forester working on percentage with good contacts will more than cover his fee with increased value gained from a carefully marked harvest.

How much do you know about which trees to cut or how to merchandise them? Bucking stems to merchantable lengths can be done the wrong way or the profitable way. A pile of 8 foot logs might be useless to a mill that really wants 16's at the time. Also be aware that many mill sin the northeast won't buy white pine during the warm months because of stain and borer issues.

As to the original question, a good 40-50 hp tractor with a farmi or norse skidding winch will work nicely. The great thing about the tractor is that it can be used for a million other things. If you go the super cheap route you are going to get super cheap results. Buying a good used skidder is one option but it only has one purpose and the logging market being what it is in the Northeast right now, I wouldn't want to risk hoping to get my money back out of it when done. Could be a pretty expensive lawn ornament.

 

[JackD_ME]

"So Jack what are you suggesting Zackman do? Should he just fell his trees and then go around asking mills if they want to buy his logs? I did not know that the Forresters in Maine were either thieves and/or incompetent."

Zackman said he would be doing a small-medium logging op on his family's property.
We don't know if he is looking at a firewood operation, lumber op or pulp wood so I have no real suggestion for him. His question was about a logging rig and I have no recommendation for him in that respect because he mentioned he didn't want to spend big money on a skidder.
As far as what and how he will cut this wood, I assumed he [& his family] have a clue what they want cut and how, giving him credit for his [assumed] intelligence.

Zackman, here is a good starting place for information.
http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/

 

[redprospector]

or you could buy a 440 JD log skidder in the 10-15,000 range, use if for you job, make some money with it and then resell it for the same money that you have in it
i know where one is right now for $11500, rebuilt winch, all around pretty good machine

Yep, and you can haul it on a good gooseneck trailer with a 3/4 ton pickup.
I know I wouldn't take 11,500.00 for mine, and it's probably older than the one you found for sale.

Andy

 

[Zackman1801]

as far as the forester issue im currently attending OHTS forestry and my teachers are both (i think they both are but i know one is) a registered forester i could ask him if he might be interested. i also know a friend of mines father that might help me out with this since he already agreed to help with any problems or questions that might come up. as far as getting into things im probably going to clear cut the area (since or main objective is retaking an overgrown field that grew up 70-80 years ago) and taking the good logs and selling to wood mills, the decent logs and pulping them and then all of what ever else seems to be there using as family fire wood for my house and my grandparents. I will check into what mills are looking for since lowel lumber is about 2 sec from my house. Although as for skidding im still at a loss since i dont have the money to drop into a skidder untill i get some of the logs sold and in order to do that i have to have something to skid with.....its a complicated process. If i could find a JD 440 at a decent price i would buy it, im not saying i dont want a skidder i am just saying i cant GET a skidder. I like the 440 series since im familiar with is since we have one at school. Although the only problem i have with finding a 40-50hp tractor is most cost around 8-12K and at that price i COULD Buy a skidder. the Truck and the ATV were more probably ideas because both were around 2000,3000K used. i know both arent viable options but mabey just mabey i could make the truck work or the ATV and then i could still have something to play around with (ive always wanted a duce and a half truck ) although i am interested in seeing if i could find one of those old pug articulated ATVs that i saw another user had in maine and pulled out some huge logs with. i dont remember who it was but they had a post in the pic section about it.

 

[thansen]

Skidding outfit

If you have access to a skid steer with tracks, or perferably a rubber track loader get a rotational log grapple like the one I have. Its a multitek Mark II grapple with hydraulic winch and it is amazing. I use a T300 Rubber Track loader and that grapple everyday and we move a lot of material. The skid steer (track loader) is universal so you can use it for everything as long as you got the right attachement. With that grapple you can handle logs, load them on truck or trailer, winch them, and skid. I wish I would have bought mine a long time ago. I've seen a Takeuchi loader with rotational grapple for sale on this site in the tradeing form. Not sure if its still there. I'll try to post a pic of my setup. I know you probably dont want to spend as much money as I have, but you can find lots of good used skid steers or track loaders. And that grapple brand new was around 10,500. It's saved us so much time and work, I dont know how we got along with out it. So you could get pretty well set up, and yet have a machine that could do lots more then just skid logs.

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View attachment 61157

 

[JKS]

I log with a 2.5 6x6 with a 30,000lb winch mounted on the back and it works fine. It is not as fast as a skidder or good in tight spots, but it will pull & go places that it really would suprise people, and just like any piece of equipment if you take care of it and not be stupid they can be very reliable and productive.

 

[cunrya]

A rotational grapple, or one like I have from Iron Oak, (not power rotating) on a skid steer or used tractor would work very nicely. Mine was about 3K a few years back, not as nice as the MultiTek but functional. I'd go the Tractor route myself, you'd be skidding backward with a skidsteer.

As far as finding a used tractor look on Tractorsbynet.com or pick up a local farm publication. Auction Yards aren't where you want to find one unless your pretty up on things. To many jockeys and if there there its usually for a reason. You should be able to find a decent 50HP tractor around 10K and it would be alot easier to get rid of when done than a skidder. Also you definetly want a loader, great for a counter weight and very useful if you get stuck (you can most always get out on your own with one)