pump?

[Dan-o]

Hello, I fired my shaver 165 up for the first time this weekend. It was sure nice to have the first fire, but now i have a problem.

I have a question reguarding the Grundfos pump that I'm using, the place I bought the pump from said it would fit my application. I have a 300' round trip run with 1" pex for my furnace which is in the attic of my house. To get to my attic I have a 25' lift needed to get water to the attic and I don't think my pump is strong enough. It is a 1/6HP Grundfos model #up26-99f. I can hear water trickling through the line but not rushing through the line.

What size pump do I need to get?

 

[fletcher0780]

Hello, I fired my shaver 165 up for the first time this weekend. It was sure nice to have the first fire, but now i have a problem.

I have a question reguarding the Grundfos pump that I'm using, the place I bought the pump from said it would fit my application. I have a 300' round trip run with 1" pex for my furnace which is in the attic of my house. To get to my attic I have a 25' lift needed to get water to the attic and I don't think my pump is strong enough. It is a 1/6HP Grundfos model #up26-99f. I can hear water trickling through the line but not rushing through the line.

What size pump do I need to get?

Ive got a shaver with a 300' round trip run also, but my plumber friend did the math (friction loss, GPM, etc) and said I had to use 1.25" pex. My grundfos pump is a 15-58 superbrute on the high setting. elevation shouldn't matter because the water traveling down negates the water traveling up, so you just need to move x amount of water through your 1" pex into your heat exchanger and back. Did you install the pump in your attic or outside? Most pumps are rated for indoor use only. Do you cycle your pump on demand or run 24/7? What do the temperatures look like on your heat exchanger (in/out on both sides under load)?

Your pump is significantly larger than mine and I have no problems, but because of the size difference in our pex I imagine your system requires a larger pump. No telling what you need until you do the math.

 

[Dan-o]

pump

I have my pumps inside the OWB, I have the pumps wired to run auto and 24/7 if needed. I figured I would let them cycle on/off when needed this time of year but when it gets cold flip the switch to run 24/7. (how do you have yours setup?)

I haven't done any temperature ratings with my heat exchanger yet, but can tell the inlet side is alot warmer than the return side, but only warm to the touch.

I think the elevation would have alot to do with it, if it can't push the water up, then it wouldn't have the pressure to fill the heat exchanger and push the water back. I can hear water barely running through the inlet line. I have a similar setup on the other side of my house, but that one has only 40' to travel with a 12' lift and it works perfect. So this make me think I need a bigger pump.

thanks for the reply.

 

[ericjeeper]

gonna have to get the air out..

Then it will be more than enough pump.Anyway that you can boost it with a garden hose?

 

[fletcher0780]

In the shaver manual they say to take a 5 gallon bucket and time how long it takes to fill it at your exchanger to see if your pump is efficient enough. i forget the number, but thinks it's between 30-45 seconds. I have my pump to run only when the house is calling for heat, but may change that to 24/7 as it seams easier to regulate the temperature in the boiler. Do you have any problems with boiling or steaming out the overflow tube?

 

[NC4AB]

A 5 gpm flow the 300' of 1" pex would give you ~ 6 feet of head loss not counting any losses from fittings.

I am assuming that your pump is located at the OWB so you are fighting the 25' lift. The shut off head for the up26-99f is 32' so you are close to its limits, but as Eric said (above) it should be able to do the job provided that you have the ability to bleed the air from the system. You have a large air bubble trapped at the top of the loop, and once you completely purge the air out you will gain the 25' lift back on the return loop back to your Shaver.

 

[Dan-o]

Then it will be more than enough pump.Anyway that you can boost it with a garden hose?

So you think there is still air stuck in my line? I ran the pump and heard it bubbling back into the OWB a couple times, so I thought I got most of the air out of the line. But when the pump shuts off I can hear water running back down the line. Does this mean there is air still in the line?

Do you mean putting water pressure into the line with the hose?

 

[Dan-o]

In the shaver manual they say to take a 5 gallon bucket and time how long it takes to fill it at your exchanger to see if your pump is efficient enough. i forget the number, but thinks it's between 30-45 seconds. I have my pump to run only when the house is calling for heat, but may change that to 24/7 as it seams easier to regulate the temperature in the boiler. Do you have any problems with boiling or steaming out the overflow tube?

I forgot to do that test, b/c you are suppose to write that number down and then if you have a problem, do the test again to help determine what the problem is.

I haven't had any problems yet, but have only ran it for 8 hours on saturday and then shut it down, drained it and fired it back up tonight.

 

[drmiller100]

300 feet of one inch is a long long ways.

you can overcome too small fo pipe with a bigger pump, but then you are throwing money away to the electricity gods, and 1/3 of a horsepower run 24/7 adds up to real money.

like the other guys said, if you get the air out, you shouldn't lose anything to elevation changes.

from your symptoms, it sounds like you have air in the attic. you should be able to turn on the pump, crack a fitting near a high point, and let the pump push the air out of the system.

how did you end up with your furnace 150 feet from your house???? that sounds just silly to me.

 

[23putts]

Make sure your line going from the furnace into the heat exchange is at the bottom of the heat exchange and the line going back to the furnace is at the top of the heat exchange. The pump can push air up through the heat exchange, but not down....

I have a Taylor 450 and the plumber hooked mine up backwards....was not getting water flow through the heat exchange and this was the reason....

 

[ericjeeper]

So you think there is still air stuck in my line? I ran the pump and heard it bubbling back into the OWB a couple times, so I thought I got most of the air out of the line. But when the pump shuts off I can hear water running back down the line. Does this mean there is air still in the line?

Do you mean putting water pressure into the line with the hose?

Yes odds are.. stil air in the line.. It is often very difficult to remove.
Any way you can undo the return line and add a wet dry vac to it? Suck the heck out of it,? as you are pushing with the pump.

 

[NC4AB]

Dan -o,

Just think of how much air was in the 150' run of Pex going to your attic before you put water in it. The water pushed the air to the highest point and effectively plugs the line at this point.

You need a valve to bleed off the air at the highest point in your system and you should be good to go.

 

[Dan-o]

thanks guys

I'm going to get some fittings and put a valve in the attic to let the pressure out.

The OWB is actually on the side of my house and comes around the house and up through the crawl space, I wanted close to the house and close to my barn. I couldn't put on the other side of my house b/c of the septic system, gas lines etc. So that is how I ended up with a 150' run, 30' of it is inside the house.

Thanks again for the Help, hopefully I will get this working tonight, it is suppose to get down to 29 here.

 

[Dan-o]

Problem solved

Make sure your line going from the furnace into the heat exchange is at the bottom of the heat exchange and the line going back to the furnace is at the top of the heat exchange. The pump can push air up through the heat exchange, but not down....

I have a Taylor 450 and the plumber hooked mine up backwards....was not getting water flow through the heat exchange and this was the reason....

Thank you very much, I had my supply line on top and return on bottom, I swapped them and it works perfect!

The OWB just starting paying for itself last night, 2 furnaces and our hot water heater. It is pretty nice!

 

[ericjeeper]

well good news

Glad to hear it is all good now..

 

[Dan-o]

ericjeeper

Is your picture from the badlands?