PUMPED up palms ... opinions please?

[Ekka]

OK

I'm sort of intrigued with this phenomenon and have a few theories but nothing concrete.

Just look at the pics and you'll see what I mean. What causes this? If it were hard soil then they'd all do it in one area. Just today I saw another Triangle palm same, and it was blown over.

I have seen over a period of time a perfectly seated palm slowly pump up and become a high risk ... just happens, why?

 

[Jim1NZ]

Great thread Ekka, i dont know but i was thinking weed eater? Dont know allot about palms, will be a good opportunity to learn. It is funny how those 3 you highlighted have the problem and the others dont.

 

[Ekka]

But if it were whipper snipper then the very first pic shows a palm in a garden ... no lawn, did the same.

Also the row of Cuban Royals that line the parade at Sanctuary Cove have a mulch ring around them ... over the past 8 years many have receded a good 1' which is a concern.

Now I read somewhere that if you get peat moss and create a basket around a palm trunk and water it after a while the palm will grow a bunch of roots ... mid air like. Apparently there's trial on this for transplanting some exotics and they do this, then when the new roots are significant enough to support the palms life the dont dig them out to transplant them they just whack them with a chain saw below the new roots!

So mulch rings aren't the cause either.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Ha it was a guess :taped:

Is that right, our native pohutakawa trees have mass aerial roots which is quite common, especially in older trees. I wonder if the moss theory would work on them... but they are far from being palms!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Hmmm. But palms don't grow the same as real trees. All the life is in the core - the outside is dead. I've seen a palm beside a freeway get thoroughly torched by a car fire next to it. Completely charcoal on the outside, all the way up. Burned off every frond. (A Washingtonian, Ekka. Hadn't ever been trimmed, so it was dead fronds all the way up. Great tinder material!)

Sprouted new fronds next spring. Pretty spring green atop a charcoal black pole.

 

[Sprig]

Intersesting ekka, my first thoughts were as above, too aggressive a weed whacking at some point and girdled them or opened up the bark that led to a decaying situation, but then why just those three?? Hm, sharp rocks and soil compaction, something causing initial damage when they were younger? Then the big Q hit me, dogs? These aren't perchance three favorite pee trees are they? Um, do they even have dogs? Just a curious type thought having never seen anything like that before and, though we do have some palms up here, they are nothing like the tropical ones and I've absolutely no experience with them, so, like I said, curious.


Serge

Holey moley! I just noticed this is my 500th post, an MVP? Nah. But I'd not have imagined developing such a facination in all things arboristic (word?) (second edit lol, arboreal?)had it not been for the fantastic, interesting, and knowlegable crew in these parts I'd have bailed a while ago (jk), thanks everyone for making this a great place to hang out!

 

[Ekka]

Oh yeah and I got 3 great videos today ... bloody rippers, so I'll be bust tonight.

 

[soutz]

Been facing this problem with the queen palms in this area a few phoneix as well. have been advised by specialist palm grower that in a natural enviroment, compaction would not be a factor and there would have been the fronds that have been droping over the years to supply organic matter.your idea about placing peat or a good growing medium round the base of the palm is the best idea, new root growth and stablization should result. a pinned wrap of geotextile would work to hold medium firm. Visited your web site it rocks mate . Been using it for my junior climbers awesome:blob4: :blob4: :blob4:

 

[Jim1NZ]

Hey Stoutz, good to see another kiwi on AS.

In Waihi, the avenue of Phoenix palms have a similar sort of thing happen to them dont they?

Now i think about it, it seems mature Phoenix palms have this happen commonly but it does not effect structural integrity at all does it?

 

[Ekka]

Now i think about it, it seems mature Phoenix palms have this happen commonly but it does not effect structural integrity at all does it?

Jim, you kidding me right?

From the front page of my website....

Unlike trees the trunk of a palm stays the same diameter for it's entire life. As palms grow taller more force is placed on the root system where it meets the ground. Roots work in tension only like ropes. Of most importance is the roots on the outside circumference, they do the most work just like guy wires on an aerial or tent. If this outer area is diminishing, or the palm looks like it's being pumped up out of the ground then it's stability is certainly compromised.

 

[TackleTree]

Can't comment on the cause but just to let you know I see the same thing here.

 

[Ekka]

If you other guys are seeing this can you take some pics to and post them.

Also, down the track those pics might show what happens.

 

[TackleTree]

Yeah not a problem. Wanting to try out my hand-me-down digital. Only problem is it is out dated and am having probs finding the usb but then I could by something external to put picture card in.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Ekka, il post some pics.

What il show you occurs on every Pheonix palm here

 

[Bermie]

Like some of the others my firat reaction was weedwhackeritis - but from further reading the thread that doesn't seem to be the case. I see a lot of similar stuff here on coconut palms. I'll try and get some pics.
Here's a thought - palms have a root initiation zone, kind of a sharp dividing line between trunk and roots, were those palms planted from another site, and if so were they planted too deeply, to the point where the root initiation zone was buried too deep? Would they then attempt to initiate new roots at a higher level? Would that then cause this 'pumping up' syndrome, new fat roots higher up, older deeper ones withering away? I'm stretching a bit here with the palm physiology.

 

[soutz]

Yeah mate they can fall over.Ones in waihi have real compaction issues aswell as mower impact damage.we are treating a queen palm this week will let you know how this goes.Ekkas outline of palm roots is bang on the money.I think with more urban impact on sites,ie sites (domestic) getting smaller more travel over same ground,more hard landscaping with easy care gardens the problems as in ekkas picture will continue. You seeing much of this in tauranga jim?:biggrinbounce2:

 

[Jim1NZ]

Hmm, those palms have been there for a very long time haven't they? So surely we can rule out incorrect planting???

Ekka, what is actually happening here, are there now roots trying to form or is there decay present at the base?

What do you know so far?
- How many palms have this happen, are there any similarities?
- When does it occur, juvenile, mature what...
- Are the palms being blown over because this "pumping up"
- What are the t/r calculations?

 

[Jim1NZ]

Yea mate see a bit of this in Tauranga, down the Mount on the beach front. Never seen any blown over or broken at the base though

 

[Ekka]

Here's a juvenile Triangle palm, check it out. Now the golden cane behind was fine and so was the 2 bob plumbago.

How many palms have this happen? ..... a lot, like 1 out of 4 maybe.

Occurs any time, big, small, juvenile or senile.

Yes the palms do get blown over.

T/R calculations would be inverse of what we're normally accustomed to with trees.

It's not how hollow it is but how much pith is left.

It's not decay and never ever has there been fruiting bodies.

Today I cleaned 4 palms, 2 of the 4 had it, but listen to this. There was one palm planted right next to a concrete path ... the roots were ontop of the concrete and taking up about 200mm of the path ... but no pumping up! So howzat? That would have to be more compacted than soil ... it was cement, and that palm was the tallest of the lot.

Bermie, with the palms at Sanctuary Cove they keep increasing the depth of the mulch ring to cover up the pumped up look. So the mulch and moisture retention hasn't slowed it nor have the palms initiated new roots ... that's the thing, mulch it up and water it but no new roots come to solve the problem.

Time to experiment perhaps if you can.

 

[Jim1NZ]

Oops sorry mate not t/r for stem fractures, what about r/r (stem radius/root ball radius) for wind thrown trees?

Do any fail at ground level where the pumping up thing occurs or are they all wind thrown with a root-ball intact?