question on having a second tie in on a spar

[joezilla11]

im working on my spur climbing and actually have some trees to remove on my own property so im lucky to have them to practice on but i have a few questions about having a second tie in. i climb on 1/2 line so ive found two options for a second tie in in addition to my lanyard: 1. choke the spar with a running bowline and use my hitch backed up with a figure 8. or 2. run my climb line thru an adjustable friction saver. parts are on order and i can work on this but i still have a few questions.

lets say i climb to the top and set my tip, work back down and start limbing my way up while having that high tie in. Would the running bowline set up work for this since im just using it as a back up and tending slack as i advance up?

or lets say there are multiple leaders and im tied in to a central leader while i work the others. again can i use the running bowline setup for this? i would be spiking up so i wouldnt be accending on the setup but it would be there for back up and possibly positioning. Seems to be common to use this setup for working a spar im just not sure if its used the way i stated. maybe the AFS with a ddrt setup might work better in these scenarios? i have no problem trying out each setup and seeing how it works for me but again im waiting on parts so i thought id pick your brains and experience in the mean time. ive been climbing for a little while now and doing very well but spurs are new to me. thanks for any help.

 

[woodchuck357]

I probably use a running bowline more often than any other knot, but I wouldn't trust one in a situation where it was loaded and unloaded. It might work lose and slip down when needed most.

Oh, and the people on this site don't know what a spar is, or so I've been told.

 

[newsawtooth]

im working on my spur climbing and actually have some trees to remove on my own property so im lucky to have them to practice on but i have a few questions about having a second tie in. i climb on 1/2 line so ive found two options for a second tie in in addition to my lanyard: 1. choke the spar with a running bowline and use my hitch backed up with a figure 8. or 2. run my climb line thru an adjustable friction saver. parts are on order and i can work on this but i still have a few questions.

The cleanest method is choking the spar with a carabiner and using a Gri-Gri or similar device. Attach the carabiner with a clove hitch and a long tail and the system is mostly retrievable. This method provides a higher TIP for setting blocks and making face cuts.

 

[pdqdl]

Clove hitch is not rated for life support in that scenario. They can roll out. I've seen it done, I don't know anybody hurt by doing it, but it isn't smart to use the wrong knot.

The bowline would be a better choice, and any of these would be a huge improvement: bunt-line, anchor hitch, figure-8, or double overhand knot (fisherman's hitch).

 

[joezilla11]

thanks i heard that too about using a carabiner instead of a bowline but would i have to worry about that loosening more easily than the bowline and releasing the choke if im moving further from the tip or transitioning to another leader. seems like the bowline might hold the choke a bit better but again i dont have the experience to say so. ill have to try that out. and a grigri would be great but i dont think itll work on a 13mm line.

woodchuck i was wondering the same thing but thinking about the running bowline or using an AFS arent they both kind of similiar in the fact that they are both cinching or choking on the spar and seems like they could both work loose with the loading and unloading.

 

[newsawtooth]

Clove hitch is not rated for life support in that scenario. They can roll out. I've seen it done, I don't know anybody hurt by doing it, but it isn't smart to use the wrong knot.

The bowline would be a better choice, and any of these would be a huge improvement: bunt-line, anchor hitch, figure-8, or double overhand knot (fisherman's hitch).

It may not be rated, but honestly I'm not sure why. They don't roll out when dressed and set, even when one side is loaded. They might slip a little but being a constrictor knot, they tighten. The real danger in the technique is accidentally choking the tail of the line instead of the working end. That was nearly a bad day for me.

 

[PassionForTrees]

I have been at it now for 26 years and I really like the Adjustable Friction Saver with retrievable ball that stays attached to my eye splice on my climbing line. I have so much comfort and never have to use a rigging or pulling rope to climb on. Keep them entirely separate. You can pre set a pulling rope if needed and keep it away from your work. Go up and down easier with less friction. secondary tie in points usually for me will be a lanyard unless it is away a bit and I will use the other end of my rope or a second rope all together to double crotch from. Usually it is not a second adjustable friction saver, I will mostly use the ONE then natural crotch the second or third. Hope this helps ya.

 

[joezilla11]

ok ill have to try that out then and let you guys know what i think. i got my figure 8 today im hoping to try that out tomorrow on a removal i started today. i will admit tho that progress was slow today and i found myself relying too much on my tip that was in a high crotch and it definitely slowed me down and made positioning awkward as i tried to balance between tie in and my lanyard. at one point after trying to adjust myself on multiple tie ins i realized that i just need to be comfortable on my spurs. so after that realization i was able to speed up a bit but darkness came and ill finish tomorrow. thanks for the help.

 

[Guran]

Here´s my set up for TIP:
View attachment 294269View attachment 294270
Add a lanyard to this and you will have a good set up.
Göran

 

[TheJollyLogger]

One thing to add just as a general point, since this is 101, is always load your ******* correctly. This was pounded into us when I was rock climbing, and I've seen more climbers load their ******* backwards. If you're choking a spar, make sure the gate is pointed out and up. Put the load on the back leg of the ******. This is true for any loading, make sure the load and pull goes away from the gate, same for safety clips, even on your lanyard.

 

[chief116]

Rope and lanyard has always been more than enough for me, especially when chunking down spars