Rat

[Shaun Bowler]

Has anyone out there turned in a tree service(to the ISA) for false advertizing?
Using CA,CTW, ISA, logos/endorsement etc?
What was the outcome?

 

[clearance]

Rat is a term used to describe an informant regarding criminal acts or enterprises.

Unless someone is commiting a crime in treework (such as stealing logs), then the term "rat" is innapropriate.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Rat is a term used to describe an informant regarding criminal acts or enterprises.

Unless someone is commiting a crime in treework (such as stealing logs), then the term "rat" is innapropriate.

False advertising IS a crime and if the swindler down the street put up an ISA logo when he isn't down you'd bet that I'd get on the horn immediately and do everything in my power to prosecute to the fullest extent. Never had that happen, Shaun, but I could imagine your pissed. Call him, see what his deal is. I got a call from one of the local CA's this year when our new ad came out with the ISA logo. I gave him my partner's cert # and left it at that.

 

[clearance]

How about BC Hydro, who employ many people to supervise tree work around powerlines. Now, every tree that is climbed, to be trimmed or removed, is climbed with spurs. Climbing trees with spurs to trim them is against ISA standards, I believe.

All the supervisors are ISA certified, they make a point of having the ISA logo on their credentials, business cards and so on. So, they watch and permit this, I figure BC Hydro should be kicked out of the ISA, Does this make sense?

I do not want people to climb spurless around power, make no mistake. I want the BS to end.

 

[lego1970]

There is a good size tree company here in Kansas City (won't post the name) that got slammed for taking down a huge Pin Oak saying that it was in bad shape and needed to come down. When you looked at the pictures and videos, the tree was a perfect speciman and in good health. They claimed to be ISA certified but when the News Channel looked into it they had no ISA, State, or any other type of certified Arborist under there payroll. Also either the same company or another company here in Kansas City claimed they had ISA certified Arborist and was awarded a city contract. After they won the bid, the city found out they had no ISA certified Arborist working for them. I believe the city gave them 30/60 days to fix that.

I'm not ISA certified but I am a ISA member (member#180212) but even though I'm a member and I'm getting 90% or higher on all my preliminary testing I would never lie and say I'm a certified Arborist. I would like to become certified but right now I can't justify the cost, especially if I go back to trucking. I wouldn't go around checking the credentials of everybody but I would rat out someone who lied about being a certified Arborist and I was 100% sure they weren't. It's not fair to those who are certified.

 

[mckeetree]

Has anyone out there turned in a tree service(to the ISA) for false advertizing?
Using CA,CTW, ISA, logos/endorsement etc?
What was the outcome?

We discovered a guy here local (and there is another one doing it now, got to get around to him) that was doing pesticide applications without a Texas applicator's license. We stayed out of it until the ignorant bastard claimed I didn't have an applicator's license. I went to see him and showed him my current license and asked to see his. That was the end of it. He even quit doing tree work altogether.

 

[Blakesmaster]

How about BC Hydro, who employ many people to supervise tree work around powerlines. Now, every tree that is climbed, to be trimmed or removed, is climbed with spurs. Climbing trees with spurs to trim them is against ISA standards, I believe.

All the supervisors are ISA certified, they make a point of having the ISA logo on their credentials, business cards and so on. So, they watch and permit this, I figure BC Hydro should be kicked out of the ISA, Does this make sense?

I do not want people to climb spurless around power, make no mistake. I want the BS to end.

Word. And I agree 100%, but that's not what this thread is about. Prosecuting BC hydro for unethical practices is a completely different animal. What Shaun is talking about is straight, to the point, type ####. You toss up an ISA logo without the creds, you get your ass sued. Sounds good to me.

 

[clearance]

I understand Blake, but I feel that it is the same thing. If you are using the ISA logo, and are a member, but tolerate or encourage work practices which are against ISA policy, are you commiting fraud? You are using the ISA logo, and all that goes with it to gain public confidence, but, you are not following the rules. Kind of like being a doctor but using dirty scapels to operate with.

 

[lego1970]

I think hooking up a tree is a little different when it comes to line clearance. First off the trees are raped back with little regards to what's healthy for the tree so some gaffs wounds probably won't make much difference. Second it's hard to maintain production goals in certain areas without gaffs. Sure some climbers can get up a tree faster w/o gaffs then some can with gaffs, but that's not the norm. A lot of those trees have been gaffed many times over in their life times.

Residential pruning, yea gaffing shouldn't be done but ratting somebody out on that might be a little overkill.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I understand Blake, but I feel that it is the same thing. If you are using the ISA logo, and are a member, but tolerate or encourage work practices which are against ISA policy, are you commiting fraud? You are using the ISA logo, and all that goes with it to gain public confidence, but, you are not following the rules. Kind of like being a doctor but using dirty scapels to operate with.

I get ya, but that gets to be a whole thing with lawyers and questions about proper arboriculture practices and yadda yadda yadda. Straight up lying about your credentials is an easily prosecuted offense. You either have them or you don't.

Sorry Shaun, didn't want to derail here. Has anyone had any luck hitting these lying hacks? It's gotta suck either way, even if you get sued by a local CA for false advertising, if you drop an ad in the phone book listing false creds your fake info is out there for the public for a year and no one can do anything about it. Not that being certified conjurs up that much biz.

 

[treemandan]

There is a good size tree company here in Kansas City (won't post the name) that got slammed for taking down a huge Pin Oak saying that it was in bad shape and needed to come down. When you looked at the pictures and videos, the tree was a perfect speciman and in good health. They claimed to be ISA certified but when the News Channel looked into it they had no ISA, State, or any other type of certified Arborist under there payroll. Also either the same company or another company here in Kansas City claimed they had ISA certified Arborist and was awarded a city contract. After they won the bid, the city found out they had no ISA certified Arborist working for them. I believe the city gave them 30/60 days to fix that.

I'm not ISA certified but I am a ISA member (member#180212) but even though I'm a member and I'm getting 90% or higher on all my preliminary testing I would never lie and say I'm a certified Arborist. I would like to become certified but right now I can't justify the cost, especially if I go back to trucking. I wouldn't go around checking the credentials of everybody but I would rat out someone who lied about being a certified Arborist and I was 100% sure they weren't. It's not fair to those who are certified.

Member vs certified. Well lets not split hairs. You could take over The Presidency with as little as that. Who would know the difference? And by the time it was over who would even remember what was said?

 

[treevet]

Member vs certified. Well lets not split hairs. You could take over The Presidency with as little as that. Who would know the difference? And by the time it was over who would even remember what was said?

Is that a vague Obama reference.....Citizen vs resident....take over the Presidency....just wondered?

 

[lego1970]

Member vs certified. Well lets not split hairs. You could take over The Presidency with as little as that. Who would know the difference? And by the time it was over who would even remember what was said?

True, and just showing my ISA membership card and a couple print outs of my preliminary test (Tree Anatomy, Tree Physiology, Tree Identification, Tree Health Management, Tree Worker Safety Climbing, and Tree Worker Safety Rigging, etc, etc) makes me look better to my insurance company, and makes me look better on the volunteering applications for both State parks and National Park Service. With just a little BS and or knowledge that little membership card satisfies most. I've been a member off and on for over 5 years and the membership card helps open a few doors (for me most of it's been for volunteering for parks). As I said, I wouldn't ever claim to be an Arborist. Is it right to use and just be a ISA member instead of a ISA Certified Arborist? To me it depends. I don't use it to try to win customers from other tree companies. Heck I can't even compete at all with most tree companies and or even hacks. Most of the times it just me working by myself. I seldom have any help so I'm limited to what I can and can't do. I just use the card to make me look a little better for my insurance, for some job applications, and for when I volunteer at the parks. I don't have any doubts that I could pass the test, but as I said in other post, I've been more into trucking over the years then Tree work. Having said that, I've have experience and knowledge to back up that little card. I've climbed and taking down everything from big @ss Cottonwoods, to skinny half dead Paradise trees, line clearance, residential, and can operate just about any piece of equipment when it comes to residential work. I have a pretty sound understanding of trees. I will admit the more I'm away from trees the harder it is for me to have the confidence, dexterity, and retain information to do tree work, but regardless I enjoy trees and tree work so there is no harm to being just a member. With winter approaching, I'll probably go back to driving so there is no need to spend the money and schedule the time to get an Arborist Certificate. Maybe next summer, or the summer after, or maybe not. Regardless, I'm still proud to be a member.

 

[treemandan]

Is that a vague Obama reference.....Citizen vs resident....take over the Presidency....just wondered?

Not in particular but sure you got it.

 

[lego1970]

Not in particular but sure you got it.

I didn't know what you were getting at. If was about the President, ok, but if it's about me, say so directly without riddles or metaphores.

 

[ASD]

Has anyone out there turned in a tree service(to the ISA) for false advertizing?
Using CA,CTW, ISA, logos/endorsement etc?
What was the outcome?

Shaun with all the BS and unlawful things that go on were you work you wan't to turn someone in

A wise man once said

"don't through rocks if you live in a glass house"

and my friend yours is porcelain.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

No Comment

 

[pdqdl]

There is a good size tree company here in Kansas City (won't post the name) that got slammed for taking down a huge Pin Oak saying that it was in bad shape and needed to come down. When you looked at the pictures and videos, the tree was a perfect speciman and in good health. They claimed to be ISA certified but when the News Channel looked into it they had no ISA, State, or any other type of certified Arborist under there payroll. ...

Yep, he got a lot of bad press from that takedown, didn't he? Not only was the tree in good condition, they got $6k for taking it down, and it was an easy tree in the front yard. I never heard about the ISA issue, though.

I was pretty close to that story, since my climber at the time went to school with Cartwright, and he had also worked for him. From what I was told, all the bad stories you heard about him were true.

 

[lego1970]

Yep, he got a lot of bad press from that takedown, didn't he? Not only was the tree in good condition, they got $6k for taking it down, and it was an easy tree in the front yard. I never heard about the ISA issue, though.

I was pretty close to that story, since my climber at the time went to school with Cartwright, and he had also worked for him. From what I was told, all the bad stories you heard about him were true.

I've heard he's pretty shady. I don't know why he's like that, his family has plenty of money and runs a big international transportation brokage firm, so he shouldn't be pressed for cash.

 

[pdqdl]

My inside story: Spoiled on too much money, drugs problems. Of course, that is all hearsay.

He does a pretty good job of marketing his services, and he does make money, so he has something going for him. He has shiny trucks, and new equipment.