retractable / break-away lanyards?

[treeman82]

Hey fellas. I had an idea for 2 lanyards last weekend when I was at a job.

1) A retractable lanyard that when you don't need it it gets sucked back into some kind of spool. I thought about that one because when I was climbing around in a few relatively small trees my lanyards were hanging and getting caught up in small crotches where I had to go over and manually remove them.

2) A break-away lanyard (only to be used in conjunction with life line support). I was working on a red oak leader (24" at the base) that was rotten to all holy heck. I was tied in someplace else when I was removing the wood, but I was butt hitching the logs. My problem though was that I was not using the 2 tie in points rule. I was afraid that if I had used my belly line around this spar and God forbid the thing went over, it would pull me down with it. Now the spar that I was removing was pretty rotten, (big cavity and the wood was punky) So what I was thinking is that somebody could design a lanyard where it's only purpose is to give a person a little bit better positioning, and that 2nd tie in point. But if you exceed X lbs of pressure on it the thing breaks so that the climber can swing away from the spar that is going down. If you stay tied in with 2 tie ins and that thing goes down you are SOL.

So, any engineers here? What do you guys think?

 

[treeclimber165]

I've been in that situation before, and just planned it out in my head what I would do if the rotton tree broke. On some cuts I took my lanyard off, on others I planned out where and how I would cut my lanyard with my saw if something gave way. I don't think I would be comfortable using a 'break-away' lanyard.

 

[treeman82]

Brian, in marketing it would be rated lbs wise. So you would have one for lets say 150 lbs, one for 200 lbs, 250, 300, etc. Because you have to figure in for gear. I'm sayin something that would be very similar to a break-away chain saw lanyard. Where the one stationary snap has the break-away part and then goes over to the cable or what have you. Like I said, to be used only in conjunction with a life support line. It would probably have to be some really funky color too.

 

[DDM]

I can Imagine the Liability Associated with that product. I'd like to see the retractable lanyard something similar to one of the dog leashes.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

And when the slip clutch goes when you lean baaaaacccckkkkkkk

There have been a few theads on having a break away link to hold the lanyard to the saddle. I'm a little leary of the subject.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Go into the archives and read the "Screamers" thread. Yates already makes them.

Tom

 

[Treeman14]

There's a lot of talk about what would happen if the rotten spar breaks, etc... Has anyone ever had this happen? I don't know of any. Of course, I may lead a sheltered life. I've never had my TIP break, never had my taught line hitch roll out, and I've never seen a speedline used to piece out a tree from the back yard to the street, over the house! Oh, and I think you'd have a hard time marketing a safety line designed to break.

 

[DDM]

A few weeks ago i saw a Speedline attached from the tree being worked on to the customers chimney with 2 workers stomping around on the roof.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Treeman14,

LOL Hmmm...somebody who's more cynical than me!

There's a lot of talk about what would happen if the rotten spar breaks, etc... Has
anyone ever had this happen? I don't know of any.
***never had it happen but I have tied into some dicey leads that made me really cotton-mouthed. That was a long time before I learned so many alternative ways to work dicey leads.

Of course, I may lead a
sheltered life. I've never had my TIP break,

***I've never had TIP breakd but I have had the limb that I had my lanyard on, for balance, break out. That's scary enough. I did have good footing so nothing happened except that my stomach was up in my mouth. Next Th and F I'm going to be taking down a dicey basswood. My main tie in will be in a sturdy cottonwood but I will have to lanyard to the b'wood. You can bet dollars to donuts I'll have some kind of break away system in my lanyard!

never had my taught line hitch roll out,
***never off the end of the rope but, before I was taught to put in a stopper I was constantly retieing the taut line.

and I've never seen a speedline used to piece out a tree from the back yard
to the street, over the house!
***The trees here in MN aren't generally tall enough to go over houses but I have done some really long speedlines. the first time I ever saw techical rigging was at Arbor Expo in Philly in about 1985. Don Blair did a slide show and showed how to move wood up and laterally! That was wild! After a little while I was, literally, on the edge of my seat. When I sat up to move my butt back, I looked around the room and most everyone else had their jaw on the floor and on the edge of their seat.

I'm showing my age here. I think that I might have a few more trees under my belt than you. Not bragging by a long shot, just more time to experience more things.


Oh, and I think you'd have a hard time marketing a
safety line designed to break.

***Have you looked at the Yates Screamers? Did you read the technical details on their webpage? They've been making them for years. They make them for NASA to use as mounts for rocket engines.

Tom

 

[Shespen]

I've experienced all three! Whats my prize?

Come on out to Seattle and you will see alot of trees that you can easily skyline over the house from the backyard to the taillight on the chipper out in the street. This is usually done as a time saver and back saver. Even when there is plenty of room to chunk it out its alot easier to use gravity. We start by dropping the lower branches and dragging them out, then lowering to the roof and throwing them in the driveway and when you get the clearence, send them all the way to the chipper. 130' to 180' doug firs are relatively common around Eugene.

The guy that started me tree climbing took one down in Portland by skylining over a glass roofed restuarant back in '86 or '87. He said that the owner had to leave because he couldn't bear to watch.

I've had a tip break out from under me doing cone picking on a larch outside of Colville, Washington. I tied in to repel out at about 8" and then did the fishpole technique on up every 5' or so. I was at the 2" diameter level and had just put on my lanyard and was reaching out when it snapped at my knees. That hurts! Those stubs are hard on the ribs.

I've had two spars try to take me for a ride when their rotten roots wouldn't take my added weight. Both times I took a swing into the tree that I was using for a safety. One of the times I was upside down when I slammed into the bole of the fir tree. I don't use a lanyard when I know that the roots are that rotten. I just stay opposite of my swing tree and free climb while taking up the slack every two steps. With pressure of my climbing line holding me against the tree I just start spearing peices down. Conditions have to be just right with a little lean in the right direction. Most of these are lombardies. (Why do people always let these rot so bad before they figure out that they are an extreme hazard?) If you don't have a tree to swing over to then walk away. I've gotten halfway up a tree and lost my nerve and walked away.

I haven't had a taut line roll out since I quite useing Arborplex about 15 years ago. That rope was famous for it and I think it was the real reason for the stopper knot requirement. I've used several types of ropes since then and never had a problem with any of them except for them coming loose when I am body thrusting. Of course you are expecting that and deal with it. I use a 1 over 2 under tautline hitch for most of what I do on quick jobs and use the distal If I am going to be up there for awhile. I never did like the Blake's. It's a pain to tie and I can't seem to get any consistant tension out of it.

I like the idea of a breakaway lanyard but I don't think that any company wants to deal with the liability issues. I remember break away saw lanyards that were made by cutting a swivel snap half way through the shaft of the swivel. They were supposed to break at about 150 lbs. if I remember right but they were taken off the market very quickly.

Tom, have you ever used any of those Yates screamers? I like the concept. Any tips on their use that you can share with us or weight recomendations?

Steve

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Never had occasion to need a Screamer...yet

Look on the specification page, you'll find one to work for you.

Tom