rope and karabiner manufacturing vids

[imagineero]

Thought some of you guys might like a look see. If you've got any related vids, post 'em up.

[video=youtube;EWmzdsfeeZM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWmzdsfeeZM&feature=related[/video]
[video=youtube;goQRzSyNpb4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goQRzSyNpb4&feature=related[/video]

Shaun

 

[climberjones]

Have you ever wonderd why rock climbers only use single action carabiners instead of double and triple locking like in the tree world ?I suppose its because of difficulty getting them un done in a pinch.I think if i started rock climbing id stick with my triple locking ! (just an observation)

 

[cgarman]

Rock climbing biners

I've been a rock climber for about 18 years, so here's my take:

There are two basic types of roped climbing - top rope (where the anchor is pre-established at the top of the rock) and lead climbing (where protection is placed as you climb.)

For top rope climbing, I use two double-lock screw gate carabiners, with the gates opposed. Top rope climbing has much shorter falls (just the amount of slack that your belayer hasn't taken up) so falls are 3-5' at most. One overhead point of protection is fine, as long as it's bomb proof. The biners are plenty strong, but two are used for redundancy. Even though falls are short, some folks use static rope (like arborist rope) which has little if any stretch and can place an impulse shock load on a biner. If it doesn't have a locking gate, it can bend open and fail.

In lead climbing, the climber places protection as he goes, so falls are much longer - twice the distance to your last anchor. If I'm 8 feet above my last anchor, I have to fall 8' to it, then 8' past it, plus belayer slack, plus stretch in the dynamic (*not* static) rope. Even though the falls are long, the catch is much softer, so there's less shock, and the biners don't see as much load, so a locking gate isn't necessary. I try to place protection every 6-8 feet if I can, so even if one fails in a fall, I'll be backed up by the next one down. So far, I've never had an anchor fail because the rope came out of the gate. The only 2-3 failures I've had were because the load jerked the piece out of the rock (usually sideways.)

But the best way to be safe in a fall is to avoid one in the first place. It's a matter of preference, but if I get in a jam and I'm in a tight spot where I'm afraid I can't hang for long, I'd drop in a piece with a spring gate that I feel is 99% safe rather than fumble with a locking gate trying for 100% safety. Remember, even though my last piece is 8' down, the fall is 25' (if it holds.) Those suck.

A small argument against locking gates is the added weight (I carry 30-40 biners) which adds up when leading. I'd rather be a little less tired and quicker to react than have all locking gates below me.

Anyway, there's my dissertation. Now I want to go climbing, but it's 35 out....

 

[climberjones]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:HMMMMM Makes sense!

 

[SoiLLclimber]

35? That's perfect for friction man! I'd be getting after it. However, I'd probably be bouldering instead. Don't know if I'd like being run out AND freezing my butt off!

 

[ATH]

I certainly do not have the experience cgarman has - just a little rock climbing for a few summers +/- 15 years ago. But here is my other guess on another reason for the difference: Rock climbing is recreational (at its roots). Tree climbing is commercial (at its roots). There are ANSI standards that are expected to be followed in the work place...nobody cares what the government thinks when they are playing. Therefore, double locking for work and nonlocking for play. I do think if more rock climbers had more exposure they may become more common because they add significant safety, but are not that much harder to use. Because of the reasons cgarman outlined, I do not expect the double locking to completely replace nonlocking...

 

[SoiLLclimber]

Even with the added benefit of safety that the multi locking biners bring to the table, I doubt that they'll be a major success. The biners used the majority of the time when on lead are all wire gate biners. The wire gates are easily removed with one hand and places one handed as well. This is all important because you still have your other hand gripping the stone. Multi lock biners would make this an extremely difficult process. Now they may have their place at a belay station or as anchors. But again, non locking biners can be used as long as the gates are opposite and opposed to one another.