Rope man blues

[NYTREECLIMBER]

I can't seem to be able to find a halfway decent rope man,are there any left? This guy I have working the ropes loves to per tension the line while I'm still tying the fricken knot awesome right,then when I tell him let it run nope he holds it I'm sure we all know how that goes. Just the other day he finally listened when I told him let it run and boy did he so much so that 5/8 husky line melted on the porta wrap and stopped a 600lb log dead in its tracks . So I am wondering is there and good videos on teaching working the ropes so I can have this guy watch it .sorry for the rant


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[isaaccarlson]

WOW! I have never seen a 5/8 rope melt to a port a wrap, but that must have been something. Not cheap either!
How far did the log drop and how many wraps?

It seems they are harder to find. I have my wife or son run the rope. It takes a few times and then they get it.

 

[imagineero]

It is really hard to find a guy that has a feel for it. The best guys on the rope are usually climbers. I had a guy last year I used to get in for complex jobs and he was a great hand on the rope. Not just in terms of letting it run, but also in terms of using the swing of the piece to land it in the other yard. Working together I could use different cuts in combination with him running/swinging the piece and save a whole bunch of time as compared to trying to use tag lines etc. A few times a year when I've got a tree that's maybe not so hard to climb but has complex rope work I'll sub another climber in and run the ropes myself. It's easier to get a good climber than a good groundie sometimes, and it gives me the chance to teach some rope running techniques to my own guys on the ground which is something I rarely get a chance to do.

Shaun

 

[beastmaster]

Most groundies these days are just laborers with short attention spans. Running ropes and help setting up rigging is to involved for someone who just wants the day to end. I know some companys that have foremens who are pretty good, and some owner operators are pretty good. I mostly have learned I'm on my own up there and stick with some very basic stuff that doesn't take a lot of team work. Invest in some dynosarb(sp?) rope, too it might save your life. It's very forgiving if something is dead caught, and not allowed to run.
But oh, when I do a complex removal with a crack team of ground people, it's such a pleasure. I like a good groundmen who can anticipate what I'm going to do, and who keeps his eyes on me most the time. I have a climber friend who I often bring on hard removals. He barely speaks English, yet I trust him with my life. I know he can "think" on his feet and he stays a step a head of me, Having ropes ready before I need them, or let a piece run just the right amount. I do stuff with him I wouldn't fill safe doing with 90% of other grounds men

 

[imagineero]

+1 on that!

It's a pleasure to work with guys who know what they're doing, and it's one of the things I miss about contract climbing. When you get a good guy on the rope you barely talk to each other, a look or a nod is often all that's needed and it turns into a real zen thing.

One tip I've picked up when trying to get guys to let the rope run, is to actually get them to run. Whatever device you've got (porty, drum, GRCS or even just wraps on a tree), you call the number of wraps from the tree. Very few guys have the feel for the rope with the run, but what I do is get them to stand about 20' from the tree holding the rope, make sure they've got barely enough wraps, then tell them "hold the rope tight, don't let it go, and when it pulls you, let it pull your body forward and run towards the tree with it, don't let it go". Brings a whole new meaning to 'letting the rope run'

It seems to work surprisingly well. You can get by with less wraps if you're using your body to absorb the movement rather than the friction of the rope in your hands. Some guys pick it up really fast, and get a feel for running the rope through their hands from that. I give my good groundies sailing gloves, which are made for handling rope. They're not cheap, about $20/pair and you only get a month or maybe 6 weeks out of them but they're awesome gloves for running ropes.

Shaun

 

[NCTREE]

+1 on that!

It's a pleasure to work with guys who know what they're doing, and it's one of the things I miss about contract climbing. When you get a good guy on the rope you barely talk to each other, a look or a nod is often all that's needed and it turns into a real zen thing.

One tip I've picked up when trying to get guys to let the rope run, is to actually get them to run. Whatever device you've got (porty, drum, GRCS or even just wraps on a tree), you call the number of wraps from the tree. Very few guys have the feel for the rope with the run, but what I do is get them to stand about 20' from the tree holding the rope, make sure they've got barely enough wraps, then tell them "hold the rope tight, don't let it go, and when it pulls you, let it pull your body forward and run towards the tree with it, don't let it go". Brings a whole new meaning to 'letting the rope run'

It seems to work surprisingly well. You can get by with less wraps if you're using your body to absorb the movement rather than the friction of the rope in your hands. Some guys pick it up really fast, and get a feel for running the rope through their hands from that. I give my good groundies sailing gloves, which are made for handling rope. They're not cheap, about $20/pair and you only get a month or maybe 6 weeks out of them but they're awesome gloves for running ropes.

Shaun

Just becareful with that, there was a guy killed around here last year doing the exact thing you explained. Limb came off and pulled him into the tree as the limb came down and struck him in the head. It was a big poplar limb and pretty much decapitated the guy. I like explaining each cut, tell how many wraps and how long to hold it and when to let it run.. After time if the groundy has a brain they will get it, if not send them packing. Your right though no better rope man then a climber, I'm done dealing with yoyos I'd rather pay a climber to help on the ground, you know he's looking out for your ass. It's nice to have another brain on the ground when you get into some tough rigging too.

 

[EcoTreeCo]

Groundman have a tendency to ignore the laws of gravity in regards to running a rope. I don't think a video, if one does exist, would properly correlate the feel of a limb or log on rope. The best rope man I ever had was the old timer who taught me how to climb. The only problem was working around his lifetime of "old school" rigging practices. Could not get him to understand and use a portawrap to save his life, but it always worked on way or the other.

 

[NYTREECLIMBER]

Yeah he had four wraps and let I go I'd say 40/50 feet before the rope melted.I still can't believe the rope didn't snap from the sudden stop. Wish I had taken a picture of it but at the time I was a little peeved to say the least. Luckily I was able to put a prussic on the line and run a block under the porty and use the winch on the chipper to pull the log up so I could peel the melted line off then lower the log down the rest of the way with winch.


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[Groundman One]

+1 on that!

It's a pleasure to work with guys who know what they're doing, and it's one of the things I miss about contract climbing. When you get a good guy on the rope you barely talk to each other, a look or a nod is often all that's needed and it turns into a real zen thing.

Yep.

I've been grounding for fifteen-years with this company and with the same climber for ten-years. Sometimes for other guys, but 99% of the time it's just my main climber. We've got our communication down to a minimum; single word shouts and single word responses. "Notch" "Backcut" "Loose" "Tight" "Ready?", followed by a very loud "Right!".


We understand how each other works and the moves each is likely to make. I trust him not to dump the tree on me when I'm working underneath and he trust me to handle the ropes properly. But it takes time to get to that zen stage. And it helps enormously that my climber is ridiculously patient, low-ego, and welcomes input on the funky stuff.

And almost all our jobs are contract and we have a standard split, same on every job. It works out even in the long run. For a groundman I make a nice salary. One big part of the reason is that few people want to be a groundman for a long time. Most guys we have gone through only want to pound ground while they learn to climb, and then once they are good enough to be beginner climbers, they don't want to pound ground anymore. Since we already have two highly experienced climbers and don't need a beginner, they quit and try to climb on their own. They end up with a bunch of small contracts and end up doing other kinds of work as well. But the guy who doesn't mind grounding year after year keeps his job, keeps learning new tricks, and having all of his own tools. Ropes and Porta-Wraps and all the other stuff needed for rigging and helping a climber do what he has to do. And most important, understanding that his main job is to help the climber do what he does.

Happy climber, happy groundman, the job gets done and everyone gets a good paycheck. Zen indeed.

 

[PassionForTrees]

We have to remember who we are working with, and teaching and training takes a long time especially if the guys are not GETTING it! you will explain and explain but fact of the matter is you should be chunking smaller pieces than that with newer guys. 4 wraps?? such bull ####, you can hold a house with that and have a near impossible time letting that run or your taking GARGANTIA pieces you have no business taking in the first place. Be smart you can always cut a smaller piece and keep training successful and not taking high risks just to get down quicker. :msp_sneaky: