Sawing Posts

[swilhelm]

First off, this forum is fantastic. I haven't posted much before because i always seem to find the answers to my questions in past threads. I now have a question i couldn't find an answer to.

I finally have my wife just about convinced that i need a bandsaw mill. I have been looking at them for about 10 years but according to her i always "need something". I am a serious woodworker so i always thought a mill would be nice to have but now that we need a couple new barns and a 1000'+ of fencing it is making more sense-especially since we have a lot of yellow pine on the property. My main concern is sawing posts for the barn and fence and a way to treat them so they won't rot. I don't think i can pull the "i know i said i can saw everything for the barn but we actually need to buy pressure treated posts at $75 a piece." I have done that too many times and caused several major arguments. Unfortunately around here you don't run across naturally decay resistant trees too often- maybe the occasional small cedar or some cypress.

Do you guys have any suggestions? I think if i can come up with a way to saw the posts and treat them than i could probably start shopping for a mill.

 

[Talltom]

The best way to avoid rot is to keep the posts for your barns out of the ground. Pour your piers/footers all the way to ground level and use a post base. The best ones keep the post an inch or two above the concrete. This is a good idea even with PT posts. The copper preservative does not penetrate into the center of the wood. Local code requires any cut end of a ground contact PT post be treated on site before put into the ground (or into the concrete.) I've also seen many ground contact CCA treated timbers rotted or attacked by termites after 10-15 years. I can't believe that some home builders were using PT wood for in ground home foundations. Even if it lasted the guarantee period of 40 years, what do you do then? Any structure that you want to last more than 20 years, keep all the wood above ground. There's no reason a well built barn shouldn't last 100+ years.

There are some disadvantages to this approach:

It's more expensive. You're replacing free wood with concrete, which I assume you'll be paying for. The post bases are also quite expensive - about $14 each around here for a ZMAX base for a 6x6. You won't need the special ZMAX coating required for PT wood, so you can save money with regular galvanized bases if you can find them.

You lose the horizontal stiffness associated with a having the posts in the ground. You'll need to add bracing higher in the structure to make up for this.

I would still treat the first couple feet of the posts and any other wood that will be within 2 ft of ground with a borate preservative such as TIMBOR. Borates remain water soluble after application, so you may want to reapply every few years to wood that gets rained on. It provides permanent protection against rot, borers and termites for wood that stays dry.

Fence posts need to be in the ground, so unless you can find some black locust to mill for posts, I'd use pressure treated 4x4s. They're pretty cheap. There are some treatment options you might look into if you want to use your own lumber for fence posts, including charring the bottom of the post. Untreated yellow pine might last 8-15 years in the ground, but it's a lot easier to replace a fence post than the main post of a barn.

 

[willbarryrec]

The best way to avoid rot is to keep the posts for your barns out of the ground. Pour your piers/footers all the way to ground level and use a post base. The best ones keep the post an inch or two above the concrete. This is a good idea even with PT posts. The copper preservative does not penetrate into the center of the wood. Local code requires any cut end of a ground contact PT post be treated on site before put into the ground (or into the concrete.) I've also seen many ground contact CCA treated timbers rotted or attacked by termites after 10-15 years. I can't believe that some home builders were using PT wood for in ground home foundations. Any structure that you want to last more than 20 years, keep all the wood above ground.

Plus 1! Great advice!

Keep those posts out of the ground....And off the concrete,I also have seen a lot of rotten lumber in contact with concrete or the ground.

Even if it lasted the guarantee period of 40 years, what do you do then?

Plus 1,000! How big a bummer would it be to have to jack up your building that you poured so much time and effort in to and replace rotten posts,sills ect..

There's no reason a well built barn shouldn't last 100+ years.

Amen.

Good luck with the mill shopping... You'll never regret being able to make your own lumber.

Please post some pic's of your mill,barns,fence or woodworking projects!

We all like to look at pic's:biggrinbounce2:

 

[swilhelm]

Thanks

I appreciate the response guys.

I was considering pouring piers anyway and adding some lateral bracing. As far as the fencing goes, i am not sure what I am going to do-although it doesn't really seem i have a choice unless i want to be replacing fence posts all the time. My existing fence that i am tying on to is 4 x 6 posts that are faced with a 5/4 x 6 so the price per post can add up pretty quick.

I did just pick up a chainsaw mill for my 660 to keep my entertained until i find a sawmill. I have a 44" maple at the house that i want to slab out a bookmatched tabletop for our dining room. I gotta wait until it cools off though- its been hovering around 100 degrees and high humidity for a while.

Anyway, thanks again. I knew i would get good advice on here.

 

[Talltom]

4x6 PT commands a big premium. You can still use a 4x4 PT post with a face board. If the sides are visible enough that you want them to match the existing fence, add a board to each side. Make sure you keep the face and side boards an inch or two above the ground & treat the bottom end grain with wax (Anchorseal) or asphalt (Treecoat).