Scalawag Jim Clark

[Stumper]

Jim how about that long awaited review of the pros and cons of carving bars for pruning?

 

[xtremetrees]

Stumper is scalawag another name for a bluenose? Im a polywog for I never crossed the equater to become a shellback.
Does a carving bar require a carving chain?

 

[Stumper]

Scalawag has an interesting etymology. It can simply mean a rascal, a youngster without a genteel lineage or historically it was applied to southern republicans that cooperated with the northern carpetbaggers.
Whether a carving bar requires a carving chain depends upon the nose radius-smallest radii require 1/4" pitch chain-the bigger ones will work with 3/8ths low profile or .325.

 

[Tree Machine]

Hi guys.

Thanks for kickin my scalawag butt. Here's the deal:


The conversion of a 346XP to handle a 14" carving bar requires that the .325 rim sprocket be swapped and replaced with a .375 pitch. I went ahead and ordered the sprocket and did the changeover. No big deal there.

Then I needed a 14" low profile chain. I've been climbing with the 346 for about 4 years now, and a 16" bar. After rifling through the garage for about an hour I remembered I had given all my mini chains to my dad, so I had to order one. I got it in, regular 52 driver links, all ready to put it on and fire it up.... for some oddball and yet unbeknownst reason the 52 DL was too short, by about one link! I did everything I could to make it fit, but it wasn't going to happen.

I went to my chainmaking area, knowing dang well I didn't have links and tie straps for 3/8 LP chain, and true it was... I had to order them.


Funny how Murphy's law can kick your arse when all you're trying to do is modify something to make your life easier.


So I got the links and tie straps in and that's about where I'm at with it, amazed at how much time and effort it's taken to fully and completely not get this project done.

But since you ask, Mr Stumper, and I've got enough daylight left I'm gonna hike out and yank one link, insert two and try it again. I appreciate your holding me to completing this. I'm actually intrigued enough by the idea of a mini bar and a thin-kerf chain on a saw with excessive power. I will bring the video camera out with me.

You just give me a little while.

 

[Tree Machine]

Oh, the bar I ordered has a nose tip of the larger size, that of a 25 cent American coin so I'm able to use the 3/8 LP.


Scalawags and carpetbaggers. What's the etymolological origin of 'carpetbagger'?

 

[treeseer]

Scalawags and carpetbaggers. What's the etymolological origin of 'carpetbagger'?

Yankees taking over the south during Reconstruction put on some mighty airs. The beaten rebels scoffed at the scalawags' luggage, saying that it looked like it was made out of the carpet that used to be in their mansions.

Maybe it was.

While you're being called out, Jimbo, has Brunhilde got you to sign up to get with the program, or are you still muling it?

Hee Haw. opcorn:

 

[Tree Machine]

Jeez-O-Pete., first I get called a scalawag, now I'm being publicly flogged for not being a Certified Arborist. I became a TCIA member this past year, mostly because I've been getting their publication for 14 years for free and sorta feeling guilty about that.

As far as becoming certified, yea, I've been putting it off. I swear, the filled out application is sitting right here on my desk. It looks at me every day. $105 plus $35 chapter fee and I'm a member, though not certified. The certification exam I study for through the CA posts here. I go to the ISA site. I take the practice exams. I feel confident I could pass, but then what? I'm a certified arborist. No client in 14 years has ever asked me if I'm certified. I don't need it for my business, I don't advertise so I don't need it for that purpose. I don't care to go to chapter meetings and even if I had a remote desire to compete at Jamborees I don't think they would approve of the way I climb. I don't want attention drawn to myself, locally or internationally. All I wanna do, treeseer, is care for trees and contribute how I can to arboriculture through the forums. I don't want to travel, don't want to perform climbing demos and since I don't use friction hitches for climbing, I don't really care to watch and learn more about a style of climbing I'm thoroughly familiar with and don't use.

I'm a scalawag recluse hermit. I just wanna hang out in my hole. ISA doesn't really need my type.

 

[Tree Machine]

Huh. Well that's sorta comforting.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

it looked like it was made out of the carpet

Actually, it WAS made out of carpet. It made for a very durable, yet cheap, piece of luggage.

 

[Stumper]

Jim, Thanks for getting on the stick on this-I have a carving bar on the way to test myself. I set my Dad up with a carving package a few months ago but he isn't pruning with it-He uses it for cutting bowstaves-both felling small trees and cutting kerfs to set wedges in for splittinn staves out of logs.-He loves it.

In your situation and mine ISA certification isn't too relevant at this point-it may becomes so in the future and might help our credentials in consulting pursuits but the customers don't ask--yet. I do highly recommend joining ISA as a professional member. The publications are,arguably, worth the cost of yearly membership. They'll help keep you learning and expanding your mental horizons. The org is OUR org-dedicated to our vocation. Plus a few more bucks get you stickers for your truck that announce to the world that you aren't just a hack with a pickup but a professional. (Our customers know that but somehow they have some pride associated with our credentials and success. I was astounded at how much getting a 3 ton truck with a forestry bed boosted my sales and the call backs from existing customers-In truth a 1 ton dump would do all I need but that great big rolling sign reads professional, competent and successful to Joe Client.

 

[Koa Man]

Well scalawag and carpet bagging Jim aka Tree Machine, I am not a certified arborist either. I was one for 9 years, but on the last renewal, I actually had all the necessary ceu's and filled out the renewal form, but elected not to mail it in. We have all sorts of CA's here and many would not even be able to climb a tree if their life depended on it. I got rather disillusioned with the whole program and like you, none of my customers even care whether or not I am certified.

For those that need certification, its great to have. For those that don't, I would say don't get it until you need it. You will generally need it to do state or county work here, which I stopped bidding on way before my certification expired. The bids are low and the payment too slow. I focus exclusively on residential and commercial work. I like residential the best...payment immediately upon completion, no waiting 30 days, or in the case of government work, 30-90 days to get paid.

 

[treeseer]

Sorry to have derailed the thread into certland; that was supposed to stay an inside jab, but Jim's more "out there" than most scalawag recluse hermits. I agree the pubs are worth most of the due $. Stumper I hope you'll find that October will be an interesting Arborist News issue, with some outside-the-box articles.

I too let my CA and membership lapse a few years ago; I was fed up with the expense and the hoops involved. Turned out those were pretty trivial in the big picture. Networking with folks online is one thing; in person at conferences is a very different thing. CA is getting bigger here and everywhere; I get a lot of high-quality call$ from my CA ad in the YP under Arborist. We can't all be blessed with a rich clientele like Koa's.

Anyway, I don't even know what a carving bar is, but I want to have a reason to use a chainsaw instead of a Sugoi. Show and Tell, and Thanks!

 

[PUclimber]

Well Jim,
here goes my stab at why you don't join any of the affiliations or enter the climbing competitions. It's due to the fact that by the ANSI. standards they aren't deemed to be safe working practices. When you have a rope splice with rivets or you're climbing on ascenders that aren't backed up. I've worked with Jim as most of you that are hardcore on here know and I was ignorant in thinking that some of the ideas and things he taught or came up with were good ones. Over the summer I had the opportunity to work with and learn from a top notch climber who is all about safety. How top notch of a climber is he? Well he is the 4 time in a row Indiana State champion. Guy has a good head on his shoulders and taught me so much more than mr. Clark. So some of you may look at jim's ideas and think they're brilliant well if you think that then you should go look at them in action. Most are unsafe practices that could lead to the common newb getting seriously injured.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ouch!

Yea, I would say ouch. Dogging a dude on his birthday.

Rivets? Not exactly. Not termed a splice either. It's called a mechanical termination and that has NEVER ever been shared here until one post ago. It's OK to criticize something you don't understand. Did you ever see the tensile break results? No. Do I climb on these eye terminations or just use them for rigging? I'll answer. Just for rigging.

As far as brilliant ideas... I discuss that there are other ways to handle friction other than using a friction hitch, but have I ever, ever EVER shown here online any prototype I am using? No. I share stuff that is used in climbing disciplines other than our trade. Some stuff has been in testing for years and will continue to stay here at home for, who knows maybe forever.

As far as ascenders not backed up, here's a pic of what I use, not suggesting anyone else use it, but setting the record straight on PU's comment

What I offer as brilliant ideas here on Arboristsite are more along the lines of 'new possibilities'. Without new possibilities there would be no advancement. I've chosen to climb in a non-traditional style, more akin to rock, rescue and other 11 mm-based areas. I don't think that's so wrong.

Other than possibly the 'friction devices aloft' thread, I invite you to show ANYWHERE in the last 4 years, here at Arboristsite where I promote some unsafe practice. Really. And did I ever suggest that YOU should do it a certain way or did you just see me climbing on prototype gear and you're extrapolating out into something that never actually happened? Be honest now.

PU, you left a Kong Autolock behind one day. I still have that, unused. I'll get that to you if you let me know how.

No hard feelings on this as we're all entitled to our opinion. However, to dog me in public, I invite you to back up where I might have offered advice that some noob might use and get hurt. I'll publicly apologise and retract any statement. With over 3,000 posts there's gotta be something, but I've been real careful over the years to not do that sorta thing and since this is my first accusation, I really question where you're coming from.

 

[Tree Machine]

Not defending myself, but this is a pic taken by PU. I was showing how to rig a limb from the tree and lower it from up there. Non-traditional yes, but it's how I've been doing it for better than a dozen years. Come onto my jobsite, chances are you're gonna see this kind of thing.

Here's another. We were over a cluster of wires and a transformer, primaries and residential drop. PU might be referring to this part of the job as I was showing how to approach a sensitive place such as this, by using pole pruners to nip away little pieces until the problem is solved.

Aside from this pic, though, I've never offered advice on how to work around powerlines. I am not qualified to instruct on that and many here are. But, arborists inevitably work around lines, especially residential drops as the power companies consider pole-to-house as the customer's responsibility. It's part of my job, so I do it. however, I don't condone or teach it. If you're on my jobsite you'll see stuff like this, but it doesn't mean you should do as I do. It is part of what we do.

I'm glad you found a good mentor, PU. My reasons for not affiliating boil down to time and money. When you're a sole proprietor, scheduled weeks in advance and you look at the opportunity costs combined with the out of pocket costs combined with how it will affect your already backlogged schedule, vs. the actual benefits, you may understand better these sorts of choices. I could become affiliated and certified, but my business won't really change at all. Your post came across in mean spirit. I hope I didn't do anything to offend you. If so, call me up and get it off your chest, or take it up with your counselor. I volunteer a lot of time here and don't feel deserving of that piece of criticism. However, I will look closely at it as it came from somewhere.

 

[Stumper]

PUClimber, I'm inclined tto give you a little slack since you are young but your criticism of Jim in a public forum is very uncool. I will argue back and forth with Jim or others on this board about the relative merits and safety of various techniques and procedures. Discussion provokes thought and, hopefully, wise choices. As I've aged I've learned to accept that honest people sometimes reach differing conclusions and I can accept that someone else practices things that I won't even after I give my point of view. Your post came across as a personal attack. I don't know what problem you may have with Mr. Clark and do not wish to know. If you have a problem then you should address it with him privately. Jim's use of unusual techniques might or might not impede him in climbing competitions but it is totally irrelevant with regard to membership in industry orginations.

 

[treeseer]

Hey, how did I get dragged into that slam? I've seen Jim's setup, and I think he's a pretty smart guy. But PU I don't think your post was all that critical or attacking. I do agree that belonging to orgs can knock some of the rough edges off of everybody; it's helped me a lot, and TM like anyone can benefit from contact with peers. But most of the stuff TM has shown is fairly routine--self-lowering I did today, using pole tools over wires, duh! :monkey:

Re backing up ascenders, I use them so rarely I'm not qualified to comment on em. i back em up cuz they make me nervous. I only know that it's better to connect with and learn from people in reality than in this virtual unreality. Reclusiveness is for Unabombers; it's a twister.

 

[Tree Machine]

Well Jim,
Here goes my stab at why you don't join any of the affiliations or enter the climbing competitions. It's due to the fact that by the ANSI. standards they aren't deemed to be safe working practices. Most are unsafe practices that could lead to the common newb getting seriously injured.

After 5 days of letting this percolate, I have dug deep to find whher and how this perception came up. It's really rather harsh, though if it's the truth, then the truth hurts sometimes.

PU worked with me for only a handful of days and saw what seemed to be unsafe practices, or me going into unsafe areas doing our work. What I do and how I do it, day to day, is really up to me and I really believe that. What I put out there for my fellow climbers and our upcoming noobs, now that I have to take a lot of responsibility for. Understanding this well in advance, I don't demonstrate and teach here at Arboristsite. I just share as the rest of us do. Spear cuts and friction hitches aloft are as 'unsafe' as I've shared here and those are nothing new or even unique to me.

After digging through some video tape from a couple years ago I came up with how I 'back up' my ascenders. This is the chosen way I do it. This is how I do it on my jobsite.

here goes my stab at why you don't join any of the affiliations or enter the climbing competitions. It's due to the fact that by the ANSI. standards they aren't deemed to be safe working practices. When you have a rope splice with rivets or you're climbing on ascenders that aren't backed up. I've worked with Jim as most of you that are hardcore on here know and I was ignorant in thinking that some of the ideas and things he taught or came up with were good ones.

I've never shown this on Arboristsite, nor did I suggest PU Climber use ascenders such as I. I just trusted him with the knowledge and like any of us, you make your own impression.

But the statement that I climb on ascenders that are not backed up..... Maybe I'm taking that to mean, not at all backed up, nothing but ascenders.

To set that record straight, here's a 14 second clip of what I use for my backup (first 6 seconds) and the application of it onto the rope (5 seconds). I did it slow and deliberate so you can see it clearly. Then ask yourself, 'Is it, or is it not 'backed up'?

 

[Tree Machine]

As far as the original Scalawag thread, the carving bar on the power-ported 346XP is showing strengths and limitations. I'm weighing both to be fully informed. After only a few days, the benefits I get from regular .058 full chisel still blow the carving bar away. I feel like I have to be 'tender' with it. The mini chain stretches, and there's no sprocket on the tip. The cutting teeth are smaller and they are semi-chisel. Because of the added power, the mini teeth on the mini chain need a file more often than what I'm used to.

The kerf is thin, I'll give it that. I think that the raw power outmatches the chain and bar system. It's novel, but you are slowed by just having to retighten your chain, otherwise too loose a chain and it'll flip off the bar. Too tight, you create friction and heat. It did very nice trimming, but bucking up firewood, limited benefit. Granted, the sucker flies through firewood, like a little laser light saber. I put an 8-pin sprocket on to max out the chain speed, though I have yet to wind it up full speed. I really don't think I want to.

With the regular setup arborists do their share of plunge cuts. I wouldn't even think of doing something like that with an unsprocketed teeny tip like on the carving bar. That's asking for bad things to happen.

I'll keep using it, at least through the full life of at least one chain, see if any other interesting uses pops up.

 

[Stumper]

I got sound with no picture on the video and a dialog box stating that there is missing software that is unavailable from the Quicktime site. Based on Dan's response I have a mental picture of what you are doing. The Rec world does a lot of things that "we" have labeled as inadequate for working systems. Part of that is a logical conclusion that large numbers of hours and adding work to the equation (meaning that we aren't fully focused on the gear all of the time AND we are banging about and sticking debris into mechanisms) gives Murphy time to invade our set up. Backing up things/adding redundancy seems a prudent course. The flip side of things that is rarely considered is that in Traditional DdRT climbing we routinely work off nothing but a friction hitch. That has an excellent safety record with hundreds of thousands of safe work hours.....and it is strange and scary to many rec and rescue climbers who have been trained on hardware and can't imagine everything hanging on an archaic hitch. In some ways I think our back-up rules are reflecting a fear of mechanical devices among some of the ANSI committee members....but I share thta fear and while I feel okay about SRT with multiple devices I would not want to work off any one alone-I feel much more secure DdRT on my tried and true hitches.

P.S. My whole interest in a Carving set-up was to utilize that small radius tip for boring-There are situations where trees with poor conformation leave little room to make a collar cut using conventional techniques or even have room for boring with a fat nose. FWIW I understand that GB is experimenting with sprocket nose carving bars. It is also worth noting that the consumer grade 91 series Double Guard bars have a sprocket nose only slightly larger than the "quarter size" carving bars. Unfortunately those single rivet sprocket noses are not very durable.