Sharpening Debate

[rahtreelimbs]

The only good a grinder does for me is get the chain back to original angles after it has been sharpened a lot by hand. The downside to a grinder is that the tooth can get tempered making it near impossible to hand file. I'll stick to handfiling!


Husky288, see what working for the BIG E gets you!!!

 

[Wolfcsm]

I am starting to see that both methods have their place. I can "tickle" a chain that has had one or two tanks of gas and get it back to very sharp. If on the other hand I hit the dirt or do some other stupid thing to the chain I take it to my local dealer and have him grind it back to where it will cut more than soft butter. I also have a grinder that works off the battery in my truck. It has worked in the field when I needed to really bring a chain back to working shape.

Hal

 

[Orange Wedge]

I have always been real happy hand sharpening my chain with a good sharp file. Always knew my chains were pretty good and cut great. About 4 months ago I was buying bar oil at the local dealer and he said I should try his grinding as it would save me a heap of time in the garage at night. I got my chain back 2 days later...with burned cutters (blue from of heat/pressure from the wheel I assume) and with way to much material taken off not to mention the rakers were not touched. Now I am P/O'ed at the dealer and have one less RS chain.
So to end this ordeal...I will stick to my bar mount file tool until it breaks...then I will get another one!!!

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Wolfcsm brings up a real good point. If someone hits a nail or buries the chain into a rock, the grinder can shave off a lot of time. Just don't take too much off as to temper the tooth!

 

[Orange Wedge]

Is tempering the tooth what turns it blue as the dealer did to mine?

 

[Clem]

The tooth is turned blue by grinding until the heat build-up changes the temper of the metal in the tooth. Its bad.
Clem.

 

[Tony Snyder]

If it just got hot enough to turn blue, that is about spring temper, and would be close to right for a cutting edge, and also one that still could be filed.

I use a wheel grinder every day, and I don't ruin chains with it. Just got too many to sharpen to use a file.

 

[Stumper]

I haven't had one of my chains touched by a grinder in years. I hand file the whole life of the chain. I agree that it IS easier to true up a chain that has been stoned , nailed etc using a grinder but I don't own one ( I mean a bench mounted chain grinder-I find the little hand held I have slower than a good file). I don't like passing my chains into the hands of the great chain wrecking monkeys at the saw shop.( In fairness I should say that there are a couple of guys locally who know how to machine sharpen chain right but my habt is ingrained now-I trust no one with my chains.)

 

[tony marks]

ive had one guy who turned chain into magic. ive had many more that ranged anywhere from fair to down right unuseable.
at this point im able to make a chain cut as well as that one guy who could use a
grinder rite. so ill go with filing . its been a long time coming tho.
the real pisser is the number of shops that dont know didley about chain. most here dont. iknow a grinder, used rite can put out a chain that will cut rite. but
these guys wont take time to learn it.

 

[NevadaWalrus]

In defense of shops

I sharpen a lot of chains on a bench grinder and have for many years. I don't use them, just work on them. I've tried to learn the best way, read some written material on it, listened to what users here say, and I'm sure my work is reasonable but still lacking.

What makes it frustrating is this. Every year we attend schools and update seminars for saw manufacturers and for the past several years I've repeatidly asked them to include proper machine grinding of chains. After all, if we sharpen a chain wrong it sort of makes the saw look like it doesn't do the job. It would seem the saw manufacturers would want to make sure their servicing dealers knew how to sharpen chains correctly to enhance their products operation.

For what ever reason, apparently they don't. A shop simply can't take the time to sharpen with a file. Most of the chains brought to the shop are far beyond a simple couple of flicks with a file anyway. Those that have been hand filed by the users have angles going every which way but loose. The hand filers in this area at least, do far more damage to the chain then any shop does with a bench grinder.

But still, it makes me currious why the saw manufacturers have no interest in proper machine sharpening education.

 

[Stumper]

Walrus, Probably because every grinder has a different set up sequence. (?) Once a grinder is setup for a particular size chain it is fairly simple ---EXCEPT for operators overheating the teeth. Overgrinding (wasting useful tooth) and overheating are why I don't have my chains machine sharpened. I used to have access to a grinder and would occasionally true up the teeth halfway through the chains life. Now I just true 'em with a file.

 

[geofore]

sharp chain

Most of us older guys learned to sharpen chain by hand because you had to if you were going to cut all day. For the occasional user take it to the shop and hope the guy knows how to use the grinder, as he grinds it he is saying to himself I hope this guy knows how to use a saw. He has one look at the chain and knows if you do or don't and with all the new anti-kick and low- kick chain the rakers probably need taken down a smidge.If you have less than half a cutter left you need to adjust the rakers if you haven't done so already. If the shop didn't touch the rakers you either have a fairly new piece of chain or the shop doesn't know squat about sharpening chain. Learn to sharpen by hand and you can touch up a chain in few miniutes or less. The shop makes money selling chain also so if they have to grind off a lot to straiten up your chain you may be better off buying new chain that has enough left on the cutters to sharpen. It comes down to how many chains you have to sharpen every day, more than a dozen buy the grinder and learn how to do it right using the grinder. For that special racing chain, do the final touch up by hand.

I still get a charge out of sharpening the homeowner's chain and seeing them pushing the saw through the wood like they did before I sharpened it. They lean into it,put lots of weight on it, only to bury it in the dirt because it cut so fast they couldn't stop it and catch their balance before they hit the ground.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Re: sharp chain

Originally posted by geofore
Most of us older guys learned to sharpen chain by hand

 

[Striker]

I do both. We were sending the chains out to be ground , butn getting to many burn't cutters. One guy wouldn't grind all the cutters the same. He ground the depth gauges way down on the first grinding. The next guy burn't even more of the cutters. I asked the boss to buy a grinder so we could have some sharp chains. Eventually I hope to teach enough of the woodticks how to hand sharpen so ass to cut down my time doing it. The ticks are also getting better at keeping the chains out of the ground.

 

[Crofter]

Heat discoloration

Blue colour on ground teeth means that a temperature of approx 650 ' F. has been reached or exceeded. If this temperature has been only slightly exceeded the tooth will be close to the original hardness and still OK. If the temperature has reached say 1000 deg. F. the tooth will be dead soft for the depth of the discoloration. However if a temperature of 1200 deg F was reached (momentary red), the edge will be too hard then to file. Thus the blue colour by itself is a bit hard to read, but nearly always is bad.
You have a choice of taking very light cuts to prevent overheating and go around the chain a number of times or cutting with an intermittent jabbing action with about 2 seconds cooling time between jabs. Either way slows down the operation and since this is usually a fixed price deal you know about what to expect.

Frank

 

[sawyer40]

23 yrs logging and sawmilling and I have never taken a chain to have it ground. Once a chain is on a saw it stays until I toss it. Unless I hit a rock or steel. I buy chain in bulk spools so it costs between 8 and 10 bucks each loop. How much do these guys get to sharpen them? I always use a file to sharpen and I file the chain and rakers many times until there is almost nothing left.Using a grinder cuts the chain life in half! Besides by the time you take the chain off and put another on I can touch it up and be back sawing.