Should I start a business????

[swyman]

Here's my story as short as I can do it... I have had a welding/fab shop as a side business but recently let go from my full time job. I do not want to go back to a factory and want to try and make it on my own. My fab shop does not currently bring in enough to make it but I will have a yellow page add starting in Jan. I still don't believe that I will get enough work to use as sole means of income. I have an central boiler and it likes wood. Now I have access to my grandma's woods for firewood that is 1 mile away. I believe that someday I will nothave access to it and then how will I get wood??? I have been tossing the idea around for a couple years about starting a tree service but was scared to pull the trigger. I have a new 200T, MS460 with 20" and 32" bars, Bobcat 873 with forks to pickup logs, a 30' gooseneck trailer to haul logs away and right now could use to remove brush from trees that I take down. I am looking into buying a bucket/chipper truck but not getting a chipper till I could make some money as I feel this would get me started the quickest and most labor efficient. Have checked on insurance and is reasonable. I think if I had a yellow page add for both businesses that I should be able to stay busy and make a living and get my firewood. Was also thinking of taking an arborist class at a local community college to learn more about trees. The only thing that I am nervous about is finding help. How do you find someone to help???? I have high hopes that a tree service would be a great business to get into and with my equipment I think I could be efficient and would only need 1 maybe 2 people to help. I have checked on renting a stump grinder so I could also provide that service if required. I still have a few weeks to decide as the yellow pages book comes out in Jan. What do you guys think?????

 

[prentice110]

I have no idea what your experience level is, or your local 'treeconomy', but if you have a 873 bobcat your already ahead of the game, IF your a decent climber. Just 1 mans opinion, that doesent know your situation. I know that its bad in Minisoda, otherwise you guys wouldnt be runnin all over the country knockin on doors for $1200 a day for a 6 man crew. If your a good welder , you'll be able to fix all the crap that your guys WILL break on you.

 

[swyman]

I have no idea what your experience level is, or your local 'treeconomy', but if you have a 873 bobcat your already ahead of the game, IF your a decent climber. Just 1 mans opinion, that doesent know your situation. I know that its bad in Minisoda, otherwise you guys wouldnt be runnin all over the country knockin on doors for $1200 a day for a 6 man crew. If your a good welder , you'll be able to fix all the crap that your guys WILL break on you.

I am a millwright by trade and have cut and split firewood all my life. I have not however, done any tree climbing but am tossing around the idea of getting a climbing kit. I assume the one with spikes would be the one to get although I like the rope climbing gear and have done some but I don't think I could cut down a tree with that method. I have a coach from a guy that was in the business and he says I would get plenty of work as long as I'm in the YP. Also he told me to go around and give quotes to people that have dead trees to be removed or leave in mailbox if not home. I still am clueless on finding help?

 

[TimberJack_7]

Oh boy....

 

[TimberMcPherson]

I am a millwright by trade and have cut and split firewood all my life. I have not however, done any tree climbing but am tossing around the idea of getting a climbing kit. I assume the one with spikes would be the one to get although I like the rope climbing gear and have done some but I don't think I could cut down a tree with that method. I have a coach from a guy that was in the business and he says I would get plenty of work as long as I'm in the YP. Also he told me to go around and give quotes to people that have dead trees to be removed or leave in mailbox if not home. I still am clueless on finding help?

If you want to get into this game seriously your going to need to find a good climber, pay him well, possibly get him to do the quotes as well. He is going to have a big part to play in seeing you do things safely and to a standard that will make your business. You will learn ALOT quick. But your going to be very reliant on skilled guys.

Its a big step, going from firewooding to arboriculture is like going from scrap metal to fabrication. And chasing dead tree work is fabrication on a sinking and burning oil platform.

 

[treeseer]

... chasing dead tree work is fabrication on a sinking and burning oil platform.

a tree biz with no tree climber is like a welding shop with no welder. gear does not get you ahead of the game; the game has not started yet if you can't get up the tree.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Oh boy....

Haha, I hear ya.
Jeff

 

[swyman]

So you guys are saying NFW, don't waste my time/money? A bucket would get me in most places. Where do I find a climbing school near Michigan then? I guess I will do a search but just starting out with limited funds, I don't see how I could afford a climber till I get on my feet. Maybe I should put the gun away?

 

[prentice110]

So you guys are saying NFW, don't waste my time/money? A bucket would get me in most places. Where do I find a climbing school near Michigan then? I guess I will do a search but just starting out with limited funds, I don't see how I could afford a climber till I get on my feet. Maybe I should put the gun away?

Unless your looking to shoot yourself in the foot...

 

[tree MDS]

To be brutally honest Shane, I think you're too old get into this gig at this point. I can say that because I'm 37 myself. The thing is I have the time in - been around treework sinse I was 15, full time sinse 17.

It's not rocket science, but you need to put in your time.. it would be years before you would be of any real value as a "tree service". Bobcat or not.

From firewood cutter guy at Grandma's, to tree service? I just dont see it.

 

[lxt]

WHY??? OH WHY????

im a welder, im a millwright, im a plumber, im an electrician, im a carpenter, im in construction, etc...etc...

why do you people even think you can start a tree service??? yes you`ll start it, low ball every job, give the trade a black eye & then you`ll finish off your service in 3-4 months after you have ruined every tree you`ve touched!!

I hate other tradesmen who want to jump into this arena!!! its not for pride, or even want......its to make a buck!!! go start a brothel in vegas & leave this trade alone.........do all you wannabe jackwagons understand!! GO AWAY!!!!!



LXT..................

 

[Cutler tree]

I think you'd be ok to start myself. If I were you, I'd first try to find a good climber. Try craigslist or this site, or your mentor that you have. Another tip is to farm out your stump grinding to someone and be loyal to them, the guy in our area knows everyone in the biz and hooked us up with our climber and tons of good advice. Next get a groundguy/ laborer and use him to work both gigs. Your climber should have another job and only work part time for you so find out what his schedule is and work around it. When you go bid jobs don't lowball, bid high but answer your phone, show up on time, follow up, most of all be friendly and professional. Be honest with everyone your workers and customers. Dump as much as you can into the companies.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I think you'd be ok to start myself. If I were you, I'd first try to find a good climber. Try craigslist or this site, or your mentor that you have. Another tip is to farm out your stump grinding to someone and be loyal to them, the guy in our area knows everyone in the biz and hooked us up with our climber and tons of good advice. Next get a groundguy/ laborer and use him to work both gigs. Your climber should have another job and only work part time for you so find out what his schedule is and work around it. When you go bid jobs don't lowball, bid high but answer your phone, show up on time, follow up, most of all be friendly and professional. Be honest with everyone your workers and customers. Dump as much as you can into the companies.

How the hell is he gonna bid on something he knows nothing about. Your encouragement could aid in this guy getting hurt. Ridiculous! Is this FTA under a new name???
Jeff

 

[Cutler tree]

Let me elaborate

He's dropped trees for firewood, he can guess how long a job will take. I would say bid at 60 per manhour if you're off and it takes you 3 times as long you're still at 20 per manhour which where I'm at breaks you even on your climber and puts you at 10 ahead on your groundie. If you club the homeowners head in give them some money back. YOUR CLIMBER RUNS THE SHOW!!!!! With a good climber he should be safe.If you do some easy stuff like a removal that you feel completely comfortable with then you and your groundie can handle those. In the begining you're better off losing bids because you're too high than cutting your own throat. Jeff, do you still climb? do you make more money now than when you did? you can farm out the skills that you don't have all day everyday. you can turn down any job you don't feel is within your TEAM"S skillset, and by all means stay safe my friend but we are talking about weather or not you can start a business not if you can climb a tree. I agree that a tree service without a climber is like a fab shop without a welder, but how many shop owners that have more than 10 employees still weld? I understand that ideally he would have 10 full time years in tree service but he doesn't that doesn't make it impossible. If he can sell better than others and build a great team he will be successfull, if you can outwork, climb, rig, trim everyone but you can't sell and won't hire a salesman you're in trouble

 

[jefflovstrom]

He's dropped trees for firewood, he can guess how long a job will take. I would say bid at 60 per manhour if you're off and it takes you 3 times as long you're still at 20 per manhour which where I'm at breaks you even on your climber and puts you at 10 ahead on your groundie. If you club the homeowners head in give them some money back. YOUR CLIMBER RUNS THE SHOW!!!!! With a good climber he should be safe.If you do some easy stuff like a removal that you feel completely comfortable with then you and your groundie can handle those. In the begining you're better off losing bids because you're too high than cutting your own throat. Jeff, do you still climb? do you make more money now than when you did? you can farm out the skills that you don't have all day everyday. you can turn down any job you don't feel is within your TEAM"S skillset, and by all means stay safe my friend but we are talking about weather or not you can start a business not if you can climb a tree. I agree that a tree service without a climber is like a fab shop without a welder, but how many shop owners that have more than 10 employees still weld? I understand that ideally he would have 10 full time years in tree service but he doesn't that doesn't make it impossible. If he can sell better than others and build a great team he will be successfull, if you can outwork, climb, rig, trim everyone but you can't sell and won't hire a salesman you're in trouble

Wow, what are you on, Dude? You seem to be just what he need's (in your mind), It seems like you should hook up with him (even tho he did not express the desire to pursue a vision of your's). He will learn the hard way like all do, and I bet he figures it all out by himself and be happy he did not listen to you.
BTW, don't worry if I climb, ask if I can! smart-ass.
Jeff

 

[Rftreeman]

no, you should not, there are enough already....

 

[sgreanbeans]

Wow, what are you on, Dude? You seem to be just what he need's (in your mind), It seems like you should hook up with him (even tho he did not express the desire to pursue a vision of your's). He will learn the hard way like all do, and I bet he figures it all out by himself and be happy he did not listen to you.
BTW, don't worry if I climb, ask if I can! smart-ass.
Jeff

Now Jeff!, don't go and get all bent out of shape!
You should recognize infinite wisdom when you see it!!!

 

[tree MDS]

Now Jeff!, don't go and get all bent out of shape!
You should recognize infinite wisdom when you see it!!!

Nice one!

 

[rmh3481]

swyman,
If you dont do it now you never will. Pray first and then get to it.

 

[arbor pro]

Swyman, while you may have the equipment covered, that doesn't give you the experience and knowledge necessary to do anything other than cut simple firewood trees down. If you want to knock a few trees down for firewood, then go ahead but don't advertise as a tree service because you're not an arborist and you shouldn't mislead customers into thinking you are.

Just because arboriculture is, for the most part, unregulated in this country, it doesn't mean it isn't a trade that requires some knowledge and training. The trade deserves some respect. Most arborists and not merely firewood cutters and we tend to be offended by the lack of appreciation for our skill and training. We actually care about tree care.

Now, if you feel as passionately about tree care as I do, then take some classes and get some training before going out on your own. If you're just looking for a quick way to make a buck then stick to firewood processing. As was previously mentioned, your lack of experience will lead you to lowballing jobs in order to get work and you will only contribute to the demise of this profession by driving experienced arborists out of business. I'm all for small business and competition but I'm also for consumer protection. Too many consumers hire tree cutters thinking they're getting a trained arborist and then bad things ensue.

Either distinguish yourself as merely a tree cutter or go get the training necessary to advertise yourself as an actual tree service. A tree service IMO does more than just knock trees down for firewood.

AP