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Those of you climbers that work for a tree co. ( that is not your own ) do you get a big thumbs down on doing your own sidework?
Side Work.........No No!!!
- Thread starter rahtreelimbs
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It's not ethical to do side work when in full time employment.
Doing side work can be considered a conflict of interest by competing with the employer which creates grounds for dismissal of employment.
A climber creates a risk to themselves
and their employer by working on the side. If the climber gets hurt, their's a low chance of making an ins. claim to cover the climbers injury. The climber may also lose time from a regular job due to the injury.
Property damage must be covered by the homeowner or out of pocket by the climber.
The co.s reputation could get tarnished if the climber thinks they know what they're doing to a plant and hurts it, or doesn't properly diagnose a doomed plant and the plant dies. Especially if the homeowner or customer blames the climber.
Joe
Doing side work can be considered a conflict of interest by competing with the employer which creates grounds for dismissal of employment.
A climber creates a risk to themselves
and their employer by working on the side. If the climber gets hurt, their's a low chance of making an ins. claim to cover the climbers injury. The climber may also lose time from a regular job due to the injury.
Property damage must be covered by the homeowner or out of pocket by the climber.
The co.s reputation could get tarnished if the climber thinks they know what they're doing to a plant and hurts it, or doesn't properly diagnose a doomed plant and the plant dies. Especially if the homeowner or customer blames the climber.
Joe
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MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Using my own equipment, on my own time, I've never had any problems with anyone I've worked with before. As long as I was there to do what they needed to get done, what I did on my own time was MY BUSINESS.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
It really all depends on the boss. I've know guys who are happy to let thier guys work after hours as long as it does not effect thier performance. They see it as retention bonus. I've known a few who let the bucket truck out after hours
.
As a matter of fact the last Winch I sold was baught by the fellows employer as a commission for a big sale. Pat can will use it on the day job and on his own jobs.
Others will see it as stealing, but they are few and far between. As long as the workers are up front and maintain the equipment before it returns, most owners/managers I've known are cool with workers running thier own part time buisness.
.As a matter of fact the last Winch I sold was baught by the fellows employer as a commission for a big sale. Pat can will use it on the day job and on his own jobs.
Others will see it as stealing, but they are few and far between. As long as the workers are up front and maintain the equipment before it returns, most owners/managers I've known are cool with workers running thier own part time buisness.
ok2climb
ArboristSite Lurker
side wrk
Alot of it matters with your particular employer, some don't care and of course
some do. As long as you have all your own equipment, are'nt getting jobs on the side while on company time, and do quality work, I dont see any problems with it. The company i used to work for had a real serious problem
with the crews going out and doing side work on company time. Some of the work was city contract and the city arborist here is so incompetent that he wouldnt know what was done or not. These guys would get a days worth of work, go out and do side work with company equipment, sign off on the city work orders as being completed and that was that. This was with a big national company that is one of the "major" players in the tree care domination game. New managment was brought in and these guys didnt last
long with the new manager. I came on just after all this happened and the office was in shambles, the remaining workers were terrible, equipment had been stolen($10,000) worth, clients were totally disatisfied and I arrived from
dallas,tx thinking that i just made the biggest mistake in my life. In the end things improved greatly and it turned out to be a worthwhile experience. It's
hard not to go out and get your own work when you can sometimes make your whole pay check in one day, just do it honestly, and give them good quality tree care.
Alot of it matters with your particular employer, some don't care and of course
some do. As long as you have all your own equipment, are'nt getting jobs on the side while on company time, and do quality work, I dont see any problems with it. The company i used to work for had a real serious problem
with the crews going out and doing side work on company time. Some of the work was city contract and the city arborist here is so incompetent that he wouldnt know what was done or not. These guys would get a days worth of work, go out and do side work with company equipment, sign off on the city work orders as being completed and that was that. This was with a big national company that is one of the "major" players in the tree care domination game. New managment was brought in and these guys didnt last
long with the new manager. I came on just after all this happened and the office was in shambles, the remaining workers were terrible, equipment had been stolen($10,000) worth, clients were totally disatisfied and I arrived from
dallas,tx thinking that i just made the biggest mistake in my life. In the end things improved greatly and it turned out to be a worthwhile experience. It's
hard not to go out and get your own work when you can sometimes make your whole pay check in one day, just do it honestly, and give them good quality tree care.
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I do treework only on the weekends and evenings. I don't do treework as my day gig! This subject was brought up after talking to a couple of friends who have had this problem. My thoughts to this were using your own equipment and giving estimates and the work on the persons own time! I don't think it is right to do anything related to sidework on company time, however I think it is alright to do this on your own time!
It depends. Technically, probably not too ethical. I encourage it though. Unwritten rules....if we just did the front yard, don't go back and knock to get the back as a side job. It is your ass then.
I think it is good to have guys who do side work. Keeps them practicing on their own time - as long as it doesn't affect performance.
I would rather them spend their extra time working instead of draining beer bottles.
.02
I think it is good to have guys who do side work. Keeps them practicing on their own time - as long as it doesn't affect performance.
I would rather them spend their extra time working instead of draining beer bottles.
.02
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
My groudn rules for side work:
IF they see work while on my payroll, the job is mine. That means that if they drive through a neighborhood, see work, and go back later to sell the work, they are stealing from me.
If they sell the work and want to run it through my company, they get a sales commission and wages to do the job.
If they do side jobs and are too tired to make it in to work, BAD!
These rules get laid out during the interview. If the rules get broken, the climber just started their own company.
I encourage side jobs and have rented gear and equipment. This encourages honesty and shows people who have ambition.
Tom
IF they see work while on my payroll, the job is mine. That means that if they drive through a neighborhood, see work, and go back later to sell the work, they are stealing from me.
If they sell the work and want to run it through my company, they get a sales commission and wages to do the job.
If they do side jobs and are too tired to make it in to work, BAD!
These rules get laid out during the interview. If the rules get broken, the climber just started their own company.
I encourage side jobs and have rented gear and equipment. This encourages honesty and shows people who have ambition.
Tom
NeTree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sidework...no. Either you work for ME, or you're self-employed.
This issue came up while I worked for Asplundh, but after they realised I had my own truck/chipper/etc, they didn't care, but Asplundh (here anyways) is strictly utility, so there was no conflict of interest.
This issue came up while I worked for Asplundh, but after they realised I had my own truck/chipper/etc, they didn't care, but Asplundh (here anyways) is strictly utility, so there was no conflict of interest.
rwilk
ArboristSite Operative
I have to agree with Tom. Even though my company is small and I'm the only climber, I have found out about one of my ground guys asking to borrow my saw to cut down a tree at his house (no hazards, just a dead tree in the middle of his field). I offered to go to help him for free, but he insisted not to waste my time. OK. Well come to find out he cut his neighbors for $200 and the firewood. FIRED right then. Be honest and up front. I pay alot of money out for equipment and insurance, so I need to make some money. I would have been happy to loan out the equipment for a small amount or just some free labor on his part, but to just outright lie is foolish.
I do pay my guys a finders fee if they just tell me about a job or so. I'll do the selling. And if they want to go into business by themselves get after it, see ya.
just a thought
rwilk
I do pay my guys a finders fee if they just tell me about a job or so. I'll do the selling. And if they want to go into business by themselves get after it, see ya.
just a thought
rwilk
Do you pay your climbers enough that they are not tempted to do sidework?
Arborists dont get paid enough in general not to do side work, climbers do a dangerous job which is practically impossible for them to continue to do to retirement age.
Fired a guy for a $200 dollar cash job, gee I wonder why he didnt want to tell you. I do relise you fired him because he lied but get a grip. We are arborists for the most part because we love it, but the money does matter. If your climber brings home $500 a week, has rent, car payments, insurance payments or god forbid a family, $200 in the hand means alot to him.
Organise a system if your staff want to do the odd cashy, set a limit, rent them the gear and help them out on it (get him to pay you the equivilent wage that he gets, thats fair. Maybe one a month, its a day out of your life but it will go a long way in keeping good relations.
Timber
Arborists dont get paid enough in general not to do side work, climbers do a dangerous job which is practically impossible for them to continue to do to retirement age.
Fired a guy for a $200 dollar cash job, gee I wonder why he didnt want to tell you. I do relise you fired him because he lied but get a grip. We are arborists for the most part because we love it, but the money does matter. If your climber brings home $500 a week, has rent, car payments, insurance payments or god forbid a family, $200 in the hand means alot to him.
Organise a system if your staff want to do the odd cashy, set a limit, rent them the gear and help them out on it (get him to pay you the equivilent wage that he gets, thats fair. Maybe one a month, its a day out of your life but it will go a long way in keeping good relations.
Timber
Kneejerk Bombas
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Good point Timber,
If your workers are making enough, they won't deal with side jobs. Giving them a big bonus for bringing you a job is another great idea.
If the guy gets hurt working on the side, he may have health insurance, but he won't have worker comp. An accident could wipe him out, and his family.
If your workers are making enough, they won't deal with side jobs. Giving them a big bonus for bringing you a job is another great idea.
If the guy gets hurt working on the side, he may have health insurance, but he won't have worker comp. An accident could wipe him out, and his family.
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