Single Rope Ascent styles

[UnityArborist]

Most single line ascents go like this:
1. One end of the rope is secured to the base of the tree
2. The free hanging line is then climbed
3. The climber lanyards in to the tree and calls for his ground guy the untie the rope.

The draw backs of this system is:
1. SRT produces more force on the branch than DRT
2. The climber has to wait for to be untied, and who knows where his ground crew has wondered off to.

Now I read in the Tree Climber Companion about securing the line directly to the branch using a Running Bowline. This requires the line being isolated more then in the other method, and there would be no 'back up' branches if the branch failed. I have used this a few times and it seems to work well in the right situation.

There are a few benefits:
1. The Climber does not have to wait for the ground crew to be untied
2. It is easy to set up in the tree if you were to return to the ground for lunch or whatever, and wanted to return to the same spot in the tree.
3. It would allow you to use more of your rope, almost 200' of a 200' rope instead of being limited to half.
4. In Oregon I have taken down Doug firs so big it took me 9 hours of cutting and rigging just to get the branches stripped and the top off. After a day like that a climber could tie off the rope and lower down the line. With the line tied off no one could pull it down and or steal it. It would also save the climber from having to spur up 150' the next day to finish the tree.

I want to know if any one else uses the running bowline for SRT, and if there is any info out there about the forces it puts on a branch: more or less than standard SRT, more or less than DRT.

 

[grizzly2]

Downside

In my opinion, the main downside to tying off using a running bowline to a branch is that you must reach your tie in point to remove the rope. Normally, that's not a problem. But, for instance, when you get that last minute emergency call, and you need to bail off the jobsite, you still have to go up and retrieve your rope. Terminating your rope around the trunk alleviates that concern. I could come up with a number of other reasons, but I think you get my point. I know I've had to stop what I'm doing, and change gears to another job or task, and if my rope is committed to the tree it becomes a major downside.

Also, I've read that SRT is now approved (or being approved) to work from, so you don't have to ask a groundhog to untie your anchor end.

 

[outofmytree]

Most single line ascents go like this:
1. One end of the rope is secured to the base of the tree
2. The free hanging line is then climbed
3. The climber lanyards in to the tree and calls for his ground guy the untie the rope.

The draw backs of this system is:
1. SRT produces more force on the branch than DRT
2. The climber has to wait for to be untied, and who knows where his ground crew has wondered off to.

Now I read in the Tree Climber Companion about securing the line directly to the branch using a Running Bowline. This requires the line being isolated more then in the other method, and there would be no 'back up' branches if the branch failed. I have used this a few times and it seems to work well in the right situation.

There are a few benefits:
1. The Climber does not have to wait for the ground crew to be untied
2. It is easy to set up in the tree if you were to return to the ground for lunch or whatever, and wanted to return to the same spot in the tree.
3. It would allow you to use more of your rope, almost 200' of a 200' rope instead of being limited to half.
4. In Oregon I have taken down Doug firs so big it took me 9 hours of cutting and rigging just to get the branches stripped and the top off. After a day like that a climber could tie off the rope and lower down the line. With the line tied off no one could pull it down and or steal it. It would also save the climber from having to spur up 150' the next day to finish the tree.

I want to know if any one else uses the running bowline for SRT, and if there is any info out there about the forces it puts on a branch: more or less than standard SRT, more or less than DRT.

Could you elaborate on this thought? I don't see how there could be any difference in force if you are talking about an identical rope passing through an identical fork and then down to a tie off or down to a harness. Of course there may be more friction with DRT if you do not use a cambium saver but otherwise the effect should be similar.

Or perhaps I forgot my medication today....

Either way, your thoughts please.

 

[outofmytree]

I want to know if any one else uses the running bowline for SRT, and if there is any info out there about the forces it puts on a branch: more or less than standard SRT, more or less than DRT.

Missed this part first time around. If the rope passes over the branch and the climber is say 100kg mass including all gear then you have the mass which is 100kg downward, countered by resistance which is also 100kg downward. So in DRT, or SRT secured to a tie off at ground level, the downward force on the branch would be 200kg. In SRT tied off at the branch the down force on that branch would be 100kg.

 

[canopyboy]

Wait a minute, maybe I forgot my meds today....

In SRT tied to the trunk, you have your 100kg of climber on one end of the rope, and 100kg or reaction (minus friction) on the other side. The branch or TIP sees up to 200kg of downward force.

In SRT with a running bowline or other similar method, there is only one end of the rope pulling down on the branch - 100kg.

In DRT,you again have two ends of the rope. However, the climber is tied to both ends, so there is nominally 50kg on each side of the rope or 100kg total downward force on the TIP.

In summary, SRT tied off remotely has twice the force on a branch that at DRT or an SRT system tied off directly to the TIP.

 

[Nailsbeats]

In summary, SRT tied off remotely has twice the force on a branch that at DRT or an SRT system tied off directly to the TIP.

Just fire the rope over a bunch of limbs and tie it back at the base. This way if the primary TIP limb fails you have many backups. The double weighted TIP becomes a non issue.

 

[UnityArborist]

down sides

In my opinion, the main downside to tying off using a running bowline to a branch is that you must reach your tie in point to remove the rope. Normally, that's not a problem. But, for instance, when you get that last minute emergency call, and you need to bail off the jobsite, you still have to go up and retrieve your rope. Terminating your rope around the trunk alleviates that concern. I could come up with a number of other reasons, but I think you get my point. I know I've had to stop what I'm doing, and change gears to another job or task, and if my rope is committed to the tree it becomes a major downside.

Also, I've read that SRT is now approved (or being approved) to work from, so you don't have to ask a groundhog to untie your anchor end.

I wish I was busy enough right now to have to worry about calls coming in, and having to bail off on job and dash to another.

 

[outofmytree]

Wait a minute, maybe I forgot my meds today....

In SRT tied to the trunk, you have your 100kg of climber on one end of the rope, and 100kg or reaction (minus friction) on the other side. The branch or TIP sees up to 200kg of downward force.

In SRT with a running bowline or other similar method, there is only one end of the rope pulling down on the branch - 100kg.

In DRT,you again have two ends of the rope. However, the climber is tied to both ends, so there is nominally 50kg on each side of the rope or 100kg total downward force on the TIP.

In summary, SRT tied off remotely has twice the force on a branch that at DRT or an SRT system tied off directly to the TIP.

Did I mention I may have forgotten to self medicate?

I laughed hard at my own expense. Thanks canopyboy. I had false crotch in mind when typing out the DRT numbers. I shall go outside and hit myself with something now.

 

[canopyboy]

We all do it.....

But if you're going to hit yourself with something, it doesn't count if you're still wearing your helmet or other PPE....

 

[chemist]

If you want to be backed up, you could use a larger loop around two limbs. if the top crotch fails the loop will close and tighten around the remaining one.

Also, while your at the top, you can set up a second false crotch with a sling or daisy chain and clove hitch into that and you will be backed up while you are working.

when you are done, just throw down half of the rope on either side of a crotch and rappel down with a figure 8, or I like to use a rock climbing ATC. then you can haul your rope out and walk away.

 

[moray]

... or I like to use a rock climbing ATC. then you can haul your rope out and walk away.

Yes! The ATC is a great way to descend if your SRT line was anchored to the limb. It's also such a tidy little item you could always have it on your belt and it would never be in the way.

 

[chemist]

Yes! The ATC is a great way to descend if your SRT line was anchored to the limb. It's also such a tidy little item you could always have it on your belt and it would never be in the way.

Another way I do it, if I have one end anchored at the base of the tree is with a grigri and ascender.

if you tread the grigri to the line you can climb with one ascender (ascender not attached to you, just has a foot loop or entrier) and pull the slack out of the grigri as you go up the rope. with the grigri, you can go up or down very easily and you are never free from the main line. really eliminates a lot of error when trying to thread a rappel device at height when your sweaty and tired. your always tied in.

 

[lostcoastland]

Srt

I recently bought a new rope and ended up with Snakebite from sherriltree company. After usign my buddies 2 ascenders, one foot and one hand to climb up a static line, and rappel out with a gri-gri , i was hooked. I started climbing DRT but noticed it was extremely difficult to get my rope to go through my gri gri and around branches..especialy a sappy Pinus Radiata...eventully i tied off at the trunk of the tree and climbed up with the end tied to me feedign out of a sack ...once you get to your TIP you pull the whole bag of rope around the stem and over a few good branches you attach the gri gri and your free! that is until you start hitting flat spots in your rope from the gri gri...after about 6 months of use my rope had flat spots that were impassable with the gri gri....so make sure to invest in a good static line....3/8's inch.....and make sure you have a secondary tie off preferebly steel core....I would never go back to climbing DRT after using the SRT method. It sounds like you could tie off the anchor beforehand , use a running bowline to get onto your crotch so you can untie the bowline and pull through you line..just look out for rouge branches on your slack pile!!!:greenchainsaw:

 

[lostcoastland]

also to anchor to the base of tree i do a double wrap timber hitch with 5 spins and a tripple tunnel knot to back it up...

 

[lostcoastland]

Most single line ascents go like this:
1. One end of the rope is secured to the base of the tree
2. The free hanging line is then climbed
3. The climber lanyards in to the tree and calls for his ground guy the untie the rope.

I dunno but sounds like step #3 is suicide :monkey:

 

[canopyboy]

Yes! The ATC is a great way to descend if your SRT line was anchored to the limb. It's also such a tidy little item you could always have it on your belt and it would never be in the way.

Yes is right. I like the ATC over the 8 now as long as I'm on 7/16 or 3/8. Small, light, and best of all no twisting of the rope on long descents like with the 8. Haven't heard of many other converts though.

 

[chemist]

I recently bought a new rope and ended up with Snakebite from sherriltree company. After usign my buddies 2 ascenders, one foot and one hand to climb up a static line, and rappel out with a gri-gri , i was hooked. I started climbing DRT but noticed it was extremely difficult to get my rope to go through my gri gri and around branches..especialy a sappy Pinus Radiata...eventully i tied off at the trunk of the tree and climbed up with the end tied to me feedign out of a sack ...once you get to your TIP you pull the whole bag of rope around the stem and over a few good branches you attach the gri gri and your free! that is until you start hitting flat spots in your rope from the gri gri...after about 6 months of use my rope had flat spots that were impassable with the gri gri....so make sure to invest in a good static line....3/8's inch.....and make sure you have a secondary tie off preferebly steel core....I would never go back to climbing DRT after using the SRT method. It sounds like you could tie off the anchor beforehand , use a running bowline to get onto your crotch so you can untie the bowline and pull through you line..just look out for rouge branches on your slack pile!!!:greenchainsaw:

you don't need to use two ascenders with a grigri. you can climb with one ascender and a grigri. you pull on the ascender and haul the slack out of the grigri, put your weight on the grigri, slide the ascender up the line and repeat.

with the grigri in place you can move up and down the main line. with two ascenders you can't move down the line until you attach your grigri. also room for error and mistakes. if you leave the grigri in from the ground you will ALWAYS be tied it.

try it, you will love it!

 

[lostcoastland]

ya but pullign the slack out of the gri gri's is a pain in the butt. i have one ascender and dont plan on buyign another one. always us a prusik. like you said the gri gri is a great device...there is a way to do it where you have a slack tending pulley below your acscender in which you pull down...usually you have to pull up to get the slack out...

 

[rngrchad]

Just fire the rope over a bunch of limbs and tie it back at the base. This way if the primary TIP limb fails you have many backups. The double weighted TIP becomes a non issue.

That's what I do. Shucks I've even hung up on nubbins in a tree and taken "whippers" knowingly when they let go. Gotta do what ya gotta do from time to time ya know

I've been climbing GriGri + handled ascencioner for 10 years or more. Quick, easy, effective. Sure beats prussics or the blakes hitch.

Note: although I've never needed it, I do feel safer with a friction belay device on the harness if for some reason I drop the grigri or something odd happens I can still get down the line with a bight into the biner. Of course the Munter works well too if you got a pear shaped biner on your rack.

I'm just a rock climber keep in mind.

 

[grizzly2]

Rescue

Here's another thought as to terminating your rope at the trunk, or the TIP. Aerial rescue, can be performed from the ground in certain situations. Obviously, this depends on the conditions present and the reasoning for a rescue in the first place. Just a thought.