Small chainsaw

[diver64]

From what you are describing your use as I'd say a 50cc would do everything you want. I used a Husky 41 for years and it did fine but it was a little small for a few things. My Jonsered CS2152 however, makes a great all around saw with an 18 inch bar. Light enough to use all day but with enough power for firewood.

 

[Berkshires]

Great pictures.
Is there any chance that you have a narrow-width chain in bar with a standard groove width?
Does the chain fit/slide firmly in/on the bar?, or can you wobble/rock the chain from side to side in the bar groove?
I am not familiar with Oregon products, but Stihl has several chain widths and bar groove widths...

The bar and chain came together. That said, it does seem like the chain wants to flop to the side a little. I turned the bar over, and this side seems a little better, so i do wonder if the bar groove was getting a little blown out. I looked at it and I can't see any obvious wear marks, so maybe it's just my imagination.

GO

 

[Berkshires]

I agree. It looks to me like your grinder rides too high on the tooth, not creating enough of a hook shape. If that is even on both sides, your chain would cut less powerful. If it is worse on one side, the chain would cut crooked.

Hmm, I use the Timberline chain sharpener tool. Not sure how much you can change how high or low the file sits, but there may be a little wiggle room. I'll have to experiment. One thing I did notice is that doing the teeth on one side versus the other, the file moves so it's either pushing the chain into the bar, in which case it doesn't really move, or pushing it away from the bar, in which case it can flop to the side a bit. It seems to me this could create different angles since the chain doesn't really rotate much when being pushed into the bar, but on the other side it can get pushed out away from the bar more.

GO

 

[Valpen]

The bar and chain came together. That said, it does seem like the chain wants to flop to the side a little. I turned the bar over, and this side seems a little better, so i do wonder if the bar groove was getting a little blown out. I looked at it and I can't see any obvious wear marks, so maybe it's just my imagination.

GO

If your chain is wobbling/rocking in the bar groove, either your bar or chain is worn, or both (or the wrong b&c combination).
It will be difficult to sharpen the chain properly as the filing motion will displace/push/tilt the tooth from its proper flat position on the bar.

 

[Sidecarflip]

First off, the only way a loop cuts crooked is when the chain is not properly sharpened and the cutters are not asymmetrical with each other (let and right cutters are not equal).

I had a Timberline and gifted it to a friend last year, IMO, basically a worthless tool and real good for non asymmetrical sharpening.

I grind all my loops and customers loops as well now. Repeatability when grinding is much better as the grinder basically eliminates ant human induced errors.

Far as Echo saws are concerned, I use a CS top handle all the time, but be aware that a lot of them will come with a CAT insert in the muffler and it really should be removed for maximum performance or a new non CAT muff installed and removal of the limited caps to tune the powerhead as Echo seems to set the lean from the factory.

Echo saws are a good bargain compared to Stihl in general but be aware that buying one at a box store and needing any warranty service will most likely put you at the back of the line with any authorized dealer, at least that is how it works at the dealership I work at part time. Customer that purchase saws (and other equipment) at my dealer, get preferential service, all others get to wait.

Finally, Echo warrants for 5 years consumer (fair statement) but if the saw has a scored jug or piston from straight gas or bad mix ratio, Echo will not warrant it, ever. They consider that customer abuse. They don't warrant5 bars or chains either as both are considered consumable items.

First thing on a dealer checklist (the dealer I work at) is dump the fuel from the powerhead and see if it has premix or water in it or straight gassed and that determines if it's warranty or not eight away.

I believe that also is the same at any Stihl dealership as well.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

If you cut a couple cord a year with that 33cc Homelite then you have been working yourself and the saw way too hard. Stepping up to a 50cc saw will make a world of difference. See if you can find an Echo CS-4910. Or go for broke and get the 590 "Timberwolf". There's even a wolf on the bar. You can't beat that. Every other suggestion in this thread is now nullified. Wolf on the bar. Case closed.

As for your Homelite, lot's of good advice here for sharpening going forward. For now though just chuck that bar and chain and start over. You can get those Oregon combos at the hardware stores for cheap. Sounds like it has served you well. Treat it to all new filters and a plug and keep it as a spare.

 

[Berkshires]

So i found the bar and chain that i purchased before. It's this:
One thing i notice is that it says "low kickback". But all the Oregon chains in the store say that, so maybe it's not really anything to be concerned about? Unless you all think this chain is bad, I'll try swapping out both chain and bar for a new set of the same thing to see if it makes a difference.

GO

 

[Mad Professor]

It would help to see some pictures of the bar rails with the chain removed.

That safety chain is a PITA to take the rakers down if you are using a file.

If the fileholder does not give enough gullet, you can shim the file out , a bit with a matchbook cover.

 

[Michael E]

If the fileholder does not give enough gullet, you can shim the file out , a bit with a matchbook cover.

Berkshires doesn't use a file holder.

Low kickback chain is a design that minimizes a serious danger, but also makes the chain cut less agressive and makes it harder to file. Your choice.

If you want to buy another brand of chain (and/or bar), the important information is on the box in the picture: 3/8" hobby/pico/lopro, 0.050"/1.3mm, 56 drive links for 16"/40cm. Those specs have to match on bar and chain. The bar in the picture has a A041 bar mount.

 

[Michael E]

Oh, by the way: Do you check your rakers regularly and file them down if necessary? If you sharpen your chain several times and neglect the rakers, your chain won't cut well anymore. It only cuts the surface and produces sawdust when it should throw out big chips.

 

[Berkshires]

I looked carefully and the new chain (exactly same brand and type) has a significantly deeper/more aggressive gullet than my existing one. So i think I'll swap out the chain and bar and keep the old ones as a spare. Trying to get this old chain to the right angle is probably beyond my skill. Better to start fresh.

Meanwhile I'll have a look around for folks within 30 miles of me that might offer both saws and repair services on those saws, and just see what they carry in the 40-50cc range.

Thanks,

GO

 

[Mad Professor]

Berkshires doesn't use a file holder.

Low kickback chain is a design that minimizes a serious danger, but also makes the chain cut less agressive and makes it harder to file. Your choice.

If you want to buy another brand of chain (and/or bar), the important information is on the box in the picture: 3/8" hobby/pico/lopro, 0.050"/1.3mm, 56 drive links for 16"/40cm. Those specs have to match on bar and chain. The bar in the picture has a A041 bar mount.

OK I looked up what the Timberline sharpener is.

Is the correct burr/bit being used? Should be 5/32" for picco/lo pro

 

[Berkshires]

OK I looked up what the Timberline sharpener is.

Is the correct burr/bit being used? Should be 5/32" for picco/lo pro

That's a great question. That is exactly what I'm using, and just to be sure they sent me the right bit i found a 5/32 file and compared it, and it's identical to the bit I'm using in the sharpener. BUT, and this is a big but, it DOES NOT fit the chain. I put the new chain on, and i don't know what size they mill it to in the factory, but it is NOT 5/32 round.

Here is a photo of the brand new chain on the new bar, with the 5/32 bit fit exactly to the angle of the chain (I promise this is the correct angle, i checked it three times):


You can see very clearly that this is not going to work. If i were to sharpen this chain with the 5/32 bit i would create the shallow gullet we saw on my old chain. So i guess my only option is to throw this chain away when it gets dull?

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

So i found the bar and chain that i purchased before. It's this: View attachment 1226482
One thing i notice is that it says "low kickback". But all the Oregon chains in the store say that, so maybe it's not really anything to be concerned about? Unless you all think this chain is bad, I'll try swapping out both chain and bar for a new set of the same thing to see if it makes a difference.

GO

That's the Oregon "AdvanceCut" chain. Basically it's low-kick chain targeted to homeowners. Its fine for your Homelite. Its probably the chain it came with.

 

[Michael E]

So i guess my only option is to throw this chain away when it gets dull?

Or have it sharpened by a chain sharpening service. Or just buy a file and learn how to file the chain by hand. There's lots of information on YouTube and it's not complicated to do. Saving your old chain is a 15 minute job. You now know what to look out for (gullet, rakers).

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

When I looked at your first set of pictures, I thought some of the cutters looked sharp and others did not. Some of the points looked rounded (all should come to a point). Some of the other cutters looked to be dull - if you can see the edge then that cutter is not sharp.

I've read and been told that unless you are a skilled filer, after a number of hand sharpenings one will inevitably change the profile of the cutters in a not good way, and the chain should be taken to a professional for machine sharpening (reread what @Sidecarflip said in post #25). My own experience with 'professional' sharpening is they will cheerily grind off half of whatever is left of each tooth. Rather than measure all the teeth and set the grinder to just kiss the shortest tooth (this will maximize the life of the chain) and then grind all the teeth to this size, they just decide to take off a healthy hunk of all the teeth. I'm not smearing all the pros out there, just telling you I've noticed this from two shops I used. I gave up on the shops and bought an Oregon grinder - I'm not advocating everyone do this, but it works for me. I also use it to sharpen my friend's chains for free, so it gets some reasonable use.

I recently bought a new bar and chain for one of my saws. The chain's drive links fit so tightly in the new bar that at first I thought something was wrong. What you have noted about your chain wobbling from side to side is not the way it should be. For filing on the saw, the bar should be adjusted tighter than you would when you are cutting, and (obviously) engage the chain brake to immobilize the chain. Each tooth should not be squirming away from the file like an infant dodging the spoonful of disliked food. If you get this kind of movement, it is impossible to file a correct profile.

 

[Sidecarflip]

One BIG issue with me and why I own a pair of chain grinder and that is... If you take chains to a sharpening shop, they won't last long simply because whomever sharpens them will grind of way more tooth than necessary. Have a boatload of sharpening files and a sharpening jig I never use anymore. and I found the Timberline to be not all that good either. Besides the Tungsten Carbide burrs are expensive and it you rotate them counter clockwise when running a chain, they are immediately ruined as the burr teeth will break off.

The difference when using a precision grinder is repeatability that you will never get hand filing, Don't care how careful you are, the 'human' wiggle factor is always there whereas with a machine grinder, there is none.

My personal rule of thumb when tensioning a chain on a guide bar is.. If I can grab the loop on the bottom center and pull it away from the bar and 2-3 drivers show, it's properly tensioned. How many drivers appear depends of course if the chain is full tooth or skip tooth.

I'm sure there will be posters that won't agree with me and that is their prerogative but I prefer sharpening with a precision chain grinder.

 

[Michael E]

If I can grab the loop on the bottom center and pull it away from the bar and 2-3 drivers show, it's properly tensioned. How many drivers appear depends of course if the chain is full tooth or skip tooth.

I'm sure there will be posters that won't agree with me and that is their prerogative

Sorry, I couldn't resist: I won't agree with this statement. The number of drivers doesn't change whether it's a full tooth or skip tooth chain.

 

[Marley5]

I hand file in the field and use a Granberg in a vice at home.
Whatever method keeps the chain sharp and the saw throwing chips.