Snags/Danger trees

[clearance]

Curious about how people here deal with these trees when they have to work around them. I am talking about dead trees leaning over or into a work area. The work area where you will be working on other trees, dragging brush. limbing, climbing, whatever..

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I drop them, Usually I inform the homeowner then I give them a price, drop them and clean up. If they will not take them down, (which has never happened) I wouldn't work there. Small stuff I just drop and chip no charge. Usually people are very happy to have a dangerous tree, top, snag, hangar etc identified and removed. Sometimes I am amazed at things people walk under and around or park there car under, and have no idea.

 

[Burvol]

If I can't safely get em down, I'll work them up and drive em over, get that stuff out of your area where you are cutting. The rigging crew needs to be looked out for too.

 

[capetrees]

For safety sake and possibly protecting your reputation for good clean work, I take them down and if not too big for free. I'll even take them down for free if they are on the neighbors property. A little goodwill goes a long way. Those same neighbors call me later for additonal removals but willing to pay.

 

[jomoco]

I was sub-contracted to get hung-up trees safely on the ground that a logging crew couldn't deal with on Palomar mountain here in San Diego County after they finished.

There were lots of very hung-up dangerous trees, and it took me about 6 weeks to get them all safely down, and I charged them premium coin to do it.

My method was relatively simple though. I would climb the trees they were hung-up in getting well above the snag points, then cut the hung-up tree from the top down until it let go, then clean up the resulting damage it did to my tie-in tree on the way down. Lot's of firs, cedars, pines and Kellog oaks.

It was good money for both me and my single groundman while it lasted, no cleanup, just had to get them safely on the ground. A pity it didn't last longer, I love working big trees in the mountain forests.

Get above the danger zone, it's the smart thing to do in most situations.

jomoco

 

[smokechase II]

How many

Jomoco:

How many a day?

What was it worth?

This is pretty impressive.

You ever take any photos?

Thanks

 

[smokechase II]

Told this story before

John P. was part of a family of bigger than average gentlemen that Stihl used for movies of big tree cutting.

In the SW Washington area.

He looked a weak snag over. Seemed Bad.

He kept his eye on it while he dropped another big fir.
Watching both as the fir hit with a boom.

Watched the snag some more. No movement.

Put his tape nail in and started bumping knots.

Down the stem a ways he felt something brush his arm.
It was the snag. 3 inches to the side and he looses an arm or worse.

6 inches he is dead for sure.

**************

This real gentleman is probably the best cutter I have ever seen.

Moral of the story.
Get ride of every one of them things.

 

[046]

that's all I've doing lately... taking down dangerous hangers and leaners.
It's a fairly large job with grounds covering 160+ acres.

damage is from the major ice storm that basically shut down tulsa's electricity for a couple weeks.

objective is to get em down without getting hurt... you really have to study how everything is hanging against each other and figure out how forces will end up.

it's impossible to predict with 100% certainty how all pieces will react once limb starts to drop. I use my Stihl power pole saw a lot! this allows me to keep some distance while cutting supporting limbs. which can be under incredible tension.

constantly need to look upwards for overhead drop dangers. the first thing I'll do besides study entire site, is to clear multiple escape paths.

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco:

How many a day?

What was it worth?

This is pretty impressive.

You ever take any photos?

Thanks

Hey there Smokechase,

It was an interesting contract, the total number of hung-up trees was only about 50-60 trees. It was the remote steep hillsides that the loggers couldn't get their skidders to where most of the nasty hang-ups were that I had to deal with. The bulk of the work was cedars and firs hung up in black oaks.

I probably spent more time lugging gear and saws through rugged terrain than I did actually climbing and cutting. Some days I would only get 2-3 trees on the ground before it was time to start the hike back to the road where my truck was.

Interesting thing about loggers is that they are great at getting alot of trees on the ground and bucked up, but the vast majority of them that I've met don't want anything to do with climbing trees period.

Even when I was in Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear mountains with logging crews all over the place, none of them went beyond climbing up the trees and blowing the tops out of them, look out below! When it came to rigging trees down and catching big wood, it just didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, some of the fellers up there were magicians at getting huge leaning trees to stand up straight and fall exactly where they wanted them to with wedges and Silvey treejacks, but they didn't want anything to do with catching wood or brush with a Hobbs device.

I made a killing up there roping big dead trees down over celebrity mansions on the shoreline of Lake Arrowhead for the LA HOA.

I wish I had pictures of a tiny fraction of the work I've done over the years, and I do have a few good videos of me working a few big trees down with big hydro cranes, but the bulk of that footage is on VHS tape, and I've not yet transferred it into a digital format. There's a video here on this forum somewhere of me working a little euc down with a crane at the San Diego zoo in the rain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQOUEdSp3Pk

Anyway, the harriest and most dangerous snag work I've done has probably been clearing trees fallen onto power lines and telephone lines for the phone company during storms in the wee hours at night. It's very dangerous work, and I could tell you stories you probably wouldn't believe, heck I can barely believe I was stupid enough to do some of the nightwork I have during storm conditions, but hey, someone had to do it, they hate losing or having to cut those big telephone trunk lines. I should have walked away lots of times, but I never did, and I'm still alive and getting pretty old now.

Knock on wood!

jomoco

 

[joesawer]

Jomoco.
I did a job on Palamar last summer that was one of the hardest falling jobs I have ever had. It was hot, steep, and the trees where very scattered. I could deal with that all right, but the brush was so thick that I had to cut a trail to every tree, then the tree would not hit the ground, it would lay on top of the brush. I was cutting the trees towards the next and then climbing up the brush and walking as far as I could down the tree, then throwing my ax and saw down, then climbing down the manzinita and start cutting the rest of the way to the next tree.
We where coming across a couple of rattle snakes every day and meat bees where every where.
I got tired of beating down trails in the manzinita, so I tried lying on my belly and worming through the brush. It was slow and I got to thinking about all the rattle snakes and meat bees in the area, so I stood up and started cutting trail again.
The fire hazard shut the job down, and then it burned before we got back to finish. Oh well, I got paid for the trees that I got to cut. To bad I saved the easy parts for last.

 

[techdave]

jomoco, that is an incredible coincidence!!

I am referring to the following quote:

"I love working big trees in the mountain forests"


I am a volunteer at Cuyamaca Rancho SP between Descanso and Julian.

Besides the tree removal contracts that the maintenance department lets for bids, our volunteer group does bucking of trees that have fallen across trails and Fireroads. We also occasionally do treework in the campgounds.

There is no budget for this in state funds anymore.

The contracts are being let due to the cedar fire's damge. Trees will continue to die, and sometimes having a volunteer faller/climber would be an asset.

There are some HUGE Oaks in Green Valley CG that have died from the fire, and some other Conifers too. Shorter hike, but same montaine gig as Palomar.

If you are interested in finding out about the opportunity, let me know eh?

Maybe this will get me to get off my butt and post some pics of the TMU crew and me in the park(s).

 

[techdave]

Hi joe, welcome to my world LOL

The only good thing about ceanothus is the way it looks on the hillsides as you drive down the road .

Palomar was not so bad before the fire because it was not so overgrown as Cuyamaca. Now I bet the Poomacha Complex has changed that, I am sick of downed snags and Ceanothus blocking trails, but at least in the Trails Maintenance Unit we volunteers get company for our misery, Ha Ha.

As for contract sawing in themontaine sector of SD county, If I remember right one poor guy actually died up by Julian doing the county right of way contract along engineer's rd or maybe pine hills rd.

Another guy got the heck stung out of him but lived. That roadside removal was tough, But I am guessing doing your own brushing and swamping was TOUGHER. Was that a NF job?

And heck yes the heat is bad on Palomar, especially the east side, but we go to Palomar in August for a work weekend cuz its usually cooler than Cuyamaca. DOH! We dont have a heat SOP, but most guys wont go out if it s much over 100. Just too hard to carry enough water plus all our crap.

At 47 I am one of the younger guys and some of them tough old coots are almost old enough to be my daddy!!

 

[jomoco]

Jomoco.
I did a job on Palamar last summer that was one of the hardest falling jobs I have ever had. It was hot, steep, and the trees where very scattered. I could deal with that all right, but the brush was so thick that I had to cut a trail to every tree, then the tree would not hit the ground, it would lay on top of the brush. I was cutting the trees towards the next and then climbing up the brush and walking as far as I could down the tree, then throwing my ax and saw down, then climbing down the manzinita and start cutting the rest of the way to the next tree.
We where coming across a couple of rattle snakes every day and meat bees where every where.
I got tired of beating down trails in the manzinita, so I tried lying on my belly and worming through the brush. It was slow and I got to thinking about all the rattle snakes and meat bees in the area, so I stood up and started cutting trail again.
The fire hazard shut the job down, and then it burned before we got back to finish. Oh well, I got paid for the trees that I got to cut. To bad I saved the easy parts for last.

Hey there Joe,

That manzanita is some amazingly tough stuff aint it? Have you ever had to work your way through it when it blooms those sticky cotton ball-like blossoms? Man that stuff sucks! It's like friggin glue! And yes I know exactly what you mean about how difficult it can be to buck up a big conifer laying on top of manzanita.

I was up in Seattle after a big storm blew through in Jan 07, doing storm clean-up work and they have these strange eucalyptus like trees that have incredibly smooth white wood that is amazingly hard. They get pretty big too.
I had to cut one down and it kept running through my mind that it was like a manzanita like tree, but white rather than red. Hopefully some of our friends here in the PNW will know what kind of tree it was I cut down, the wood was very very heavy, and the bark was a lovely smooth milky white.

I could see the Palomar Observatory in the distance when I was doing the snag contract on Palomar Mountain.

Hey, Techdave I did the dead conifer removal contract in William Heise Park in Julian after the Cedar fire. Another sweet no haul contract. It included all the miles and miles of narrow hiking trails in the hills around the park. It was pretty cool to be cruising those trails on 4X4 ATC's legally with my saws and gear. I feel sorry for whoever had to go in there and clean-up after me, what a nightmare that had to be for a ground crew!

Work safe guys!

jomoco

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Timber!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I drop them, Usually I inform the homeowner then I give them a price, drop them and clean up. If they will not take them down, (which has never happened) I wouldn't work there. Small stuff I just drop and chip no charge. Usually people are very happy to have a dangerous tree, top, snag, hangar etc identified and removed. Sometimes I am amazed at things people walk under and around or park there car under, and have no idea.

same here, I include it on the bid as an includded cost due to saftey concerns.

 

[techdave]

Was it Madrone?

Hi jomoco, was the Euc like tree Madrone? I never seen teh inside of one, just pics of them from a distance, and on the side of the road at 65 mph.

 

[kai2139]

I've done alot of snags lately do to the oklahoma ice storm. Quickest way is to cable near the bottom above your cut and winch or pull out with the truck. The longer the cable the better so you'll be out of harms reach. Only takes about 10 min. per tree. Rope saw works great to buckle the tree and at the same time stay out of the way.

 

[jomoco]

Hi jomoco, was the Euc like tree Madrone? I never seen teh inside of one, just pics of them from a distance, and on the side of the road at 65 mph.

Bingo! Pacific Madrone (Arbutus menziesii)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbutus_menziesii

Surpisingly the heartwood is very darkish brown/redish.

Nice call Techdave!

Thanks

jomoco

 

[smokechase II]

Madrone

"I had to cut one down and it kept running through my mind that it was like a Manzanita like tree, but white rather than red. Hopefully some of our friends here in the PNW will know what kind of tree it was I cut down, the wood was very very heavy, and the bark was a lovely smooth milky white."


I associate Madrone with the color red. The bark is usually a reddish brown and not all that dissimilar in color or feel from Manzanita.

It is preferred firewood. The decorative use of its contrasting sap and heartwoods is absolutely sensational.

The banana belt areas of SW British Columbia have a lot of it too.

When I was a kid we'd cut the bark off in vertical strips and wrap it around things. It was an early Tyvex for kid's forts.

 

[1I'dJak]

climbed a few dead arbutus, or madrone's as the yanks call em... can't say i liked it too much...rock hard...no bark...and get some crazy twists and dog legs in them...i was pretty new to climbing at the time too...most recently i climbed some dead balsam firs....i was pretty hungry for work at the time or else i probably would've passed on them....I was getting sick of watching the dead tops wiggle precariously every time i sunk a spur in.