Solving the multiple-bidders conundrum

[Sunrise Guy]

OK, I have come up with the answer to a vexing problem. Hang in there, and I'll get to it-----

I have had it with this type of client: "Hello. I'm calling/e-mailing you to have you come out and bid a tree job for me. I have a number of trees and I don't know what needs to be done with them. I'm having four other companies come out to tell me what they think needs to be done and to bid this job, and I'd like to see you at my home at 3PM, tomorrow, if that will be convenient for you. Please let me know."

1st Problem: This potential client wants a bid from me, but doesn't know what needs to be done. She wants me to tell her what I think needs to be done and what I will charge for doing the same. She wants four other companies to do likewise. The big problem here is that each company may have a different take on what needs to be done and thus, bids may be spread wayyyyy across the price spectrum.

2nd Problem: It is highly likely that this potential client is "fishing." She wants to get free information from five tree companies. She'll pick our brains and then???? There is a high probability that she will go with the lowest bid and then try to squeeze more work out of this company based on what the other companies may have recommended for a higher price.

3rd Problem: This relates to Problem #1. There is absolutely no way the bids will be "apples to apples" type bids. Each company will bid a different price for slightly, or not so slightly, different work. This is a losing proposition.

4th Problem: Insofar as I give free bids, I charge $100/hr. for arboricultural consultation work. This client, as above, is trying to do an end run around my consultation fee.

The above has happened to me about three to four times a year, and it will never happen again. It has never been a good experience, as I do not normally sell myself cheap, and those times I have followed up on the work of others, the winning bidders, I have seen horrible work.

Doing these types of bids has been a time and gas waster.

I now have come up with the solution to this problem. I drafted this last night, and it is now Company Policy.

As follows:
**********************************************************
Hi,

Thanks for your interest in hiring Sunrise Tree Services.

We welcome the chance to bid on your job, but we notice that this job fits the criteria we use to enter into a special bidding situation:

Since you are not sure what you want done with your trees, and, indeed, wish to have each competing tree company suggest what needs to be done, there is absolutely no way for our company to give you a bid on a set list of things we will do for a given price, as compared to another company bidding on the exact same list. As such, if we are to bid on your job, we require the same bidding situation we use for bidding commercial accounts:

You need to have all tree companies you are considering, meet at the same time at your house. Then we will walk through your grounds and each of us will determine what needs to be done. When we have all agreed on what needs to be done, we will each give you a sealed bid for the exact same work. In that way, you may decide whom you wish to go with.

If the above is not agreeable to you, please remove my company from your list of bidders.

What you will get if you have each company come out separately is a number of bids on any number of very different things that will be done to your trees. You may go with the lowest price and not even come close to those services your trees actually need to stay healthy and look great.

Only if all companies agree on what needs to be done (and most Certified Arborists should be able to reach consensus using my above-described procedure) will you get bids where you may compare "apples to apples."

Please let me know if you are agreeable to the above.

Thanks for considering Sunrise Tree Services.

 

[treemandan]

I have good news and bad news, Bad first: I quit. Now good: I quit.
to many conundurums'es
Stick it to em buddy, sounds great.

 

[Ekka]

Yep, here's my bid, $50 less than any of the others you got for the same work, just present this along with the other written bid and waste no more time. :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[ropensaddle]

I just tell those types I ain't got time to doodle bug if you just have to
have my opinion it will cost ya. I have a minimum doodle bug fee of 200.00
to answer your questions of your trees care concerns'. Or I will give you a
bid now for 20000.00 but that is for one residence because I know you want the best possible care for your trees:monkey:

 

[BC WetCoast]

I like your opening paragraph, but am not really comfortable with a group of company sales guys walking around together trying to determine what work needs to be done. It sounds like it would end up in a cluster f### to me.

What I would suggest (based on past project experience) is that you will only participate in the bidding process if there is a fixed scope of work. If the client is unsure of what work is needed then you will visit the site and develop a list of work for the consulting fee of $XXX. Then the client can get multiple bids on a fixed list of work.

You can sell your ability to do the consultation by showing a past report (dummy one up if required), with work to be done, priorities (eg 1 month, 6 months 1 year), equipment restrictions (eg no buckets to work on A & B, bucket ok for C), pictures etc. Make it look professional.

Maybe you're better off selling the consulting, and letting the others low bid themselves to death on the tree work.

In the past, I put together a team to do government project. The way the project was put together, the proponents had to prepare a vegetation management report and bid on the work in the same proposal (tough to do). It was an airport. For subsequent projects, I was contracted separately to prepare the vegetation management plan and then that plan was used to tender the work.

There is a local sales trainer who advertises frequently on the radio. One of his big messages is never give free consulting, allowing the customer to shop your recommendations around.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I like your opening paragraph, but am not really comfortable with a group of company sales guys walking around together trying to determine what work needs to be done. It sounds like it would end up in a cluster f### to me.

What I would suggest (based on past project experience) is that you will only participate in the bidding process if there is a fixed scope of work. If the client is unsure of what work is needed then you will visit the site and develop a list of work for the consulting fee of $XXX. Then the client can get multiple bids on a fixed list of work.

You can sell your ability to do the consultation by showing a past report (dummy one up if required), with work to be done, priorities (eg 1 month, 6 months 1 year), equipment restrictions (eg no buckets to work on A & B, bucket ok for C), pictures etc. Make it look professional.

Maybe you're better off selling the consulting, and letting the others low bid themselves to death on the tree work.

In the past, I put together a team to do government project. The way the project was put together, the proponents had to prepare a vegetation management report and bid on the work in the same proposal (tough to do). It was an airport. For subsequent projects, I was contracted separately to prepare the vegetation management plan and then that plan was used to tender the work.

There is a local sales trainer who advertises frequently on the radio. One of his big messages is never give free consulting, allowing the customer to shop your recommendations around.

Good food for thought. Thanks. I really like your "fixed scope of work" idea. I fullly expect that most of these "potential clients" will quickly lose interest in getting a bid from me when I respond with my bidding process mandate, but since I feel many, if not most, of these residential multi-bid folks are just playing games, not getting their work is no big deal.

 

[teamtree]

You have given this situation too much thought.

Suck it up and go out and tell her what needs to be done. Dazzle them with you knowledge and charm. Most importantly, sell them on yourself and your company. Tell them what needs to be done and give them an estimate on how much you will charge and point out why you may be higher than the next company.

If they are looking for the lowest price, you probably don't want the work. If it works out, you may have a great customer.

It is not truely a bidding situation. I play the same game and I am trying to focus on selling what my company can do and what benefits there are in hiring us.

I wish you luck.

 

[arbor pro]

I guess, IMO, it all boils down to selling your company - not your company's bid. I presume we're talking about prune jobs here since removals are generally pretty cut and dry. All my prune work is hourly and since there is usually a broad range in the potential scope of work to be performed for the client, I generally give them a high and a low and let them pick the price and scope of work that they're comfortable with.

Obviously, as the tree care professional, I have an ethical obligation to try to do the best job I can for a customer but we all know that some people are on a budget and only have a set amount to spend. I do my job as a salesman and find out what that magic dollar amount is and then try to sell my services as a great bargain for the quality and quantity of work that they will be receiving.

If possible, I also give them money-saving options like doing the final raking or disposing of the larger wood that won't go through the chipper (I don't do firewood) or maybe I'll offer to do the work in two or three stages or offer financing so they can do it all at once but pay over a few months. Whatever it takes to find that magic balance between what they want to get done and what I need to get paid to do the work.

 

[Farmer Ferd]

What team tree said.

Often I get the job. I have a great reputation and I can sell myself and my company. A lot of people truly don't know what needs to be done or what it entails, it does take time but this is what we do. Good luck whatever you do.

 

[Jlarnard]

If sales were cut and dried to be the lowest bidder wins then I agree with you.
But it never is. In the case of a commitee type situation, it's all in who you know. Or who on the commitee has heard of good things about you.
As far as residential, or private owner situations, sales is sales. This is my specialty, and nobody here locally can beat me. (I am sure many of you on this site can out sell me) It's not the price, sure on a removal or set type of work it might be, but not on a please come and educate me call.
Often times in these situations I can actually sell several years of work by submitting a plan for the care of the customers property.
And I look at it this way, I can only win a certain % of bids, so why not take the chance if it is local, and get some more practice.
Selling tree work is easy, anyone with an understanding of the job can do it.
Selling the customer on my company, now this is the trick to being a good salesman.
Just know your limits, if you go into it planing on failing, the customer will probably make you a prophet. In this case don't bother wasting your time.
To me sales is the fun part of owning a business, but if it's not yours then concentrate on what you are good at.

 

[Lumberjacked]

I kind of like where Sunrise is going with having multiple sales men there at the same time. As far as I am concerned I would be there soaking up everything they say so that I can more competitive with them next time. One of the local big guys I have found sells HO cabling jobs like I change my socks. I feel if I spent 30mins talking with, and compiling a list of work with other companies sales guys it will only help understand what they are looking for every time they go to a potential client. Anytime I can I try to get my competitors proposals not to price cut because I rarely EVER do that but I just like to see how everyone sets up their quotes...Again going back to wording of specified work.

 

[tree MDS]

I like what teamtree said, "dazzle them with your knowledge and charm". I have led many an old bag around thier property while they hold onto my arm for stabilty, at first it seems strange but you get used to it. The things we'll do to get work. Also just be honest about the job - dont oversell yourself, its all about being subtle in my opinion. I think I have an advantage over alot of these fools around here though, most of em gotta work for dirt to get a job because of whatever thier problem is, take your pick: fat crackhead, equipment rich jailbird with giant tattoo on throat, inexpierienced hillbilly with camo hat, full time stoners, outdated fossil, etc. etc. Oh, I'm sorry, but that felt soo good, lol.

 

[tree MDS]

That would be quite a walk, lol.

 

[treemandan]

Running into other bidders is quite common. Boy, do some people take it really personall. What? You can't say high? I mean HI.
Just happened this week and Mr. Millers. Josh tells him around 13 and of course mine is higher, I actually do the work myself so I know what it takes to make it right. I am here to profit I guess. This guy Mario from Norristown goes 700. We all know Mario and that's a hike for some ball busting chump change buddy.
700? Thing is nobody really knows what that includes. We don't know what is on the proposal maybe its not the same as mine. Mine inclided an bucket, brush mower, chipper and a full day of guys running around making sure we didn't kill the grass or do anything WRONG!
One lady called me , said, " We are broke, need a big tree down and are getting estimates from everybody"
No problem, I'll toss mine in and meet a lady. Sir Josh gets there before me, he calls me just as I am about to pug out into the downpour of heavy rain, I am in my Crocs ( they are those rubber shoe/slippers you see women, kids and girly guys in). He says the lady just told him she gave the job to the guy that had just left...
I called to let her know. Its funny how we, as arborist ( did I say arborist?), get so uhm?, jealous, indignant, rude, and deceitful towards each other when one of us is granted permission to wrestle a monster out of their dog crap strewn yard. I just add in the cost of blowing it all out of my way.
sometimes you do what you have to to help someone though and everybody is supposed to make a buck. Demeaning oneself is not in the job description. Demeaning others should be illegal, I wouldn't ask someone to do it ( cheap) if I wouldn't. Its sickening to see what Mario and the mexicans will do.
Mario? you out there? what is up?

 

[tree MDS]

Yeah dan, you're right on today. I just lost one to the hillbilly I think, this estimate went sweet, just a simple day of treework for 1500, the potential customer said "that sound good, just give me something in writting and I'll talk it over with the wife". So I get his e-mail and say I'll send this out in the morning and call you to make sure you got it, he said that sounds great. Should have been a lock, no doubt. So the next day I call the guy back and leave a message that I sent that out...he calls back and says kindly that his wife got someone to do it for less, I said how much? he tells me 500! Its that time of year now I guess, honestly I dont even feel like going out there. Oh, the hillbilly works for the fossil as his day job so he can learn treework. I guess a grand is alot when you only make 16 bucks an hour regulary. But I guess there was a time when I was like that too. Still aint worried bout that punk - even though he's young so he might be aroun for awhile - he aint got MDS charm baby, lol.

 

[treemandan]

I ain't often right but I never been wrong, seldom turns out the way it does in the song.
Now you tell me you can't understand what I write? No, I think I got it
Once in awhile you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
When a person calls you about something like some tree work that person allready has his own agenda. He got this agenda from what he has allready seen, been told and been aquainted with. To him, he is doing his job well if he can get you "play" into his agenda. I guess this is really how its like for everything in a nutshell. I know that is how I do it too BUT I tend to throw a tiny bit of respect in for whoever steps up and wants to " play" with me.

when the ins guy from the oil co who wrecked my house finally showed up I could tell he wanted to pacify me by using as little as possible... giving as little as he had to.
I stood inches from his apathetic tired face, here is what I said: HARDBALL BABY! Actuaaly I didn't say that, I hollered, put my sak into it. I asked him if it was my turn to bat and if he was going to pitch or not.
Turns out, I am the ump.
I hope you were the ump to hillbillly bob. Its tough cause really you and him are opposing teams... Did you politely let him know about his foul?
I guess that is what I meant when I said " tiny bit of respect" . You didn't get any? Probably wouldn't have gotten paid either.
I do feel bad for the ins guy who has to spend his days looking over my papers again and again. I was speaking to him the other day, I said " Bill". He said," My name is Wanye," I said " I don't care."

 

[tree MDS]

The customer was supposed to call me back with the name of the company his wife hired, he offered when I asked politely who it was that bid 500 cheaper, he didnt. But thats ok I'm pretty sure it was the hillbilly because he has named his biz after the town the est. was in. No I wouldnt play ump anyway, not my style. I get enough kicks just from the one estimate I ran into him personnally on, Looked like a Mossy Oak camo add, lol, complete with 88 flatbed ford wth 33's. Most of these guys got alot to learn. But I gotta wonder if hillbilly knows he ripped himself out of hundreds of dollars? And that is the problem with the underbids, it drags us all down. The throat of steel dan, that freak is another story, lol. Like I said I really dont even feel like bothering bidding out there for the priceshoppers right now. I like the heat and the good jobs and working 7 days a week ideally.

 

[treemandan]

The customer was supposed to call me back with the name of the company his wife hired, he offered when I asked politely who it was that bid 500 cheaper, he didnt. But thats ok I'm pretty sure it was the hillbilly because he has named his biz after the town the est. was in. No I wouldnt play ump anyway, not my style. I get enough kicks just from the one estimate I ran into him personnally on, Looked like a Mossy Oak camo add, lol, complete with 88 flatbed ford wth 33's. Most of these guys got alot to learn. But I gotta wonder if hillbilly knows he ripped himself out of hundreds of dollars? And that is the problem with the underbids, it drags us all down. The throat of steel dan, that freak is another story, lol. Like I said I really dont even feel like bothering bidding out there for the priceshoppers right now. I like the heat and the good jobs and working 7 days a week ideally.

I thought the hillbilly was the client. I also take it you have not seen all of vintage dan.
Back then I had some trouble figureing out what to charge and I usually went cheap. For one, I didn't know what I know now, 2 : I was cheap. 500 for a day or so wasn't bad. I had MANY other things to do as well. I certainly wasn't The Dan I am now back then. Sure you can laugh, I'll wait.
But you can see now that things are different here but I am still a hillbilly. What are you a white collar exacuitve? Don't like big tires?
Really though, he is not your comp as I was not competetion for real service back then. To tell the truth I am not really a service to anyone but myself in a way.
Though even back then I was obessed with doing everything like sculpture. It can take the wind out of your sails to see guys still rolling around after so many years still looking crappy. I guess those guys fit the bill sometimes. I did. Hell, I guess they figure if all they can get out of the client is 500 for the work then when bother looking good and doing good work.
I love my man Treeco... He says, " they get what they ask for" It is a shame that not to many people ask for good quality and safe practice on something so SMALL as the trees. Now the acura? Waxed, detailed and with tire shine evry week, they are not dogs.

 

[treemandan]

Personally I want to go back to subbing for the reason of not dealing with the client. For the reason of not being another underminer cause with what i charge now people don't exactly line up. And I have to charge it just like you.

Lots of tree work in my neighbor hood,sometimes I am here awhile on my own road. Lots of hillbillies too.
A couple of people down the way jsy had some front yard trees removed by a guy with a poulon and a yota pik-up. They had a climber, some kids, but the one guy kept coming back with the yota to load day after day after days. The stuff sat on the lawn and drive for days, the last large chunks of wood ( really stuff we would put in our pockets) took a bit of work with the wild thaing.
The Ho's were fine with this cause I had allready told them what was what and everybody else did to.
Personally I see not to much wrong with this and I CAN and WILL compare it to many a real tree service I have atteneded... ded.
Some of these diy'ers come out pleased as punch, (If they come out at all so am I) at the atrosities they perform.
I do brag about shinneying up some clove hitch and my ball hitch BUT I have heard people brag about when their clothesline broke. Personally, again, I don't do stuff that hasn't been checked out. You should hear me all day running around hollering to people about " checked out" and of course there is " checked out on" ( if you don't know what this is , ask).
Anyway, for about twenty years now I have kept a pick-up stocked with tools ready to go on the prowl to scab some tree work. i thinks its cool.

 

[lxt]

Ekka`s right!! some bum will tell the H.O he`ll knock off $50 from the scope of work bid on by so n so! he`ll get the work order & the knowledge of what needs done, he`ll get an idea of competitor pricing and whalla......he gets the job.

just charge them a flat fee & tell them for extra you`ll inspect the work to see that it has been done to proper standard!


LXT..........