Some city slicker that wants to play in the forest.

[tramp bushler]

I guess you guys prove the rule , those that can , do those that can't are a bunch of government suck ups ..

Look Matt . Contrary to what you were taught in school and what all these college edjucates are yammerin about . .
You can do anything you want to, if you want to bad enough and are willing to pay the price . .
If you want to go loggin , well its kinda hard to if the only logs where u r are verticle and hole up power lines .
You need to get to loggin country . You want to be in the mountains , well ain't much for mountains down south .
You want to get a job in the brush , find some outfit . Plauge them until they put u on , then day in , day out , out work every guy on the crew . And be a good guy .

 

[tramp bushler]

But you need to decide if you . Need to be on the governmint dole . Or if your going to be a man and work for a living . Ie private sector vs . The welfare state ( typical gvmt employee .)


You don't even need to be able to read to be a Great logger . You sure don't need any college courses.
Instead of wasting your money on that crap . Spend it on the stuff you will need to make a livin in the brush .

Basic reading skills are enjoyable tho .

 

[forestryworks]

With the way the economy is going, getting an education is not a bad idea, contrary to what some will say on here. Every time the economy got bad for me, I had an opportunity to go back to school. I am finishing up my third degree (Bachelor of Sci. in Natural Resource Mgmt.) at the end of this year.

A degree doesn't make you over educated, it just gives you more options and a more secure fall back plan than guys without an education. An over educated person is one with lots of book experience and no real world experience. Combining both book and real world experience makes you a more knowledgeable person, as not everything can be learned on the job and and not everything can be learned from a book.

More and more, the people that are hiring these days want you to have at a minimum, a bachelors degree. Don't fret though, a 2 year degree is miles better than just a high school diploma or a GED. All a degree means to a lot of employers is that it shows you can start something, stick with it and finish it.

And don't turn your cheek to government employment, in the next decade or so it could be the only secure job sector there is. And the benefits aren't bad. You might get your wage frozen, but once you have a federal job you don't have to worry much about how secure that job is. A USFS fire crew is a great way to start your fed employment career.

Logging? Not secure. It's a volatile industry, squeezed tight by the big hands of the market economy. But then again, there's no other job like it.

Try out whatever grabs your interest, give each job a shot and finish the job as agreed upon with your employer.

 

[slowp]

Well Tramp, maybe I should change my name to Government Suckup, or better yet, On The Dole. Do you think all I did was drink coffee and sleep at a desk? Or just stand on a landing? Geesh. Thanks a lot.

The Government doesn't even have job security anymore. Why did I move so much? Because "downsizing" was in vogue. Reorganization and Downsizing do not help job security. If you are a veteran, you can be fairly secure. A coworker did sleep at his desk and wandered about with a coffee cup in hand, but he was a veteran and therefore it was all right....( I do not mean to slam the veteran preferance but a few do take advantage--note the words A FEW).

Now they are trying to figure out how to downsize more and offering financial incentives for people to leave.

And a hint. Try to get on at a godforsaken place like Happy Camp or Orleans or Hayfork because few people want to work at such isolated spots. The competition will be less.

 

[MacLaren]

An excellent post! And congrats on your 3rd degree!

 

[chaikwa]

Haha, Sorry for that long run-on essay in the beginning of the thread...

No apologies needed. I didn't aim that at you, just commenting on one of my pet peeves that I see all too often.

I guess you guys prove the rule , those that can , do those that can't are a bunch of government suck ups ..

You may be on to something here. I was a career firefighter for 26 years. Broke my back, a leg, and have permanent lung damage from various aspects of 26 years on the job. I left the job in 2001 because I was sick of the politics, wasn't eligible for retirement and wouldn't take disability, so now I have NO retirement and I make roughly $17,500 or so a year from whatever I can make off my land, (that I paid cash for after saving for 20 years), and the 'government sucking-up' I do. The 'suck-up' work I do for the government is all acquired by a bid process in which the low bid gets the work. There's no benefits and travel and expenses aren't covered outside of the bid amount. They house me in a dorm when I have to go to one of their facilities tho, so I guess I DO live in the lap of luxury on the government dole! :rolleyes2:

Contrary to what you were taught in school and what all these college edjucates are yammerin about . .

I've never attended college. I BARELY have a high school diploma. Actually, I have a GED because I went to a trade school instead of high school, so technically I have a trade certificate. I DID go to an extension school to get my paramedic certification, so if you want to consider that college, more power to ya!

You can do anything you want to, if you want to bad enough and are willing to pay the price . .

This is true. In logging, the 'price' will most likely be a broken body by the time you get to your 60's or older. Nothing wrong with that if that's your career choice, just be aware of it and consider having something in terms of other skills or knowledge so you can still make a living after your body gives out and you aren't still hobbling around a cut block in your elder years. The only thing worse than being a 'government suck up' is being an old logger who can't really do the job anymore, but the boss feels bad for you and keeps you employed despite your ability to be able to contribute anything worthwhile.

But you need to decide if you . Need to be on the governmint dole . Or if your going to be a man and work for a living . Ie private sector vs . The welfare state ( typical gvmt employee .)

You don't even need to be able to read to be a Great logger .

Be very careful when someone gives you 'advice' like this. It usually comes from someone who has some regrets about what he or she has done with their life and doesn't want to see anyone else get something they couldn't acquire.

There's a big difference in being employed by a government entity and 'being on the dole', and that is a choice that you CAN make. People who have government jobs that do nothing, are 'on the dole'. Welfare recipients that are too lazy to actually work for a living are 'on the dole'. But in both examples, there are people that are good and bad. You are the one who will determine what kind of person you will become.

 

[madhatte]

Do you think all I did was drink coffee and sleep at a desk? Or just stand on a landing?

I can manage both.

Seriously, though -- I want to point out again that I have never taken a class in Forestry. I am not "formally" educated in what I do for a living. I have a degree in biology/ecology and a degree in photography. My military background is in engineering. Forestry is something I learned in the field. My "other" educations make me a more versatile thinker, and better at what I do than if I only knew one discipline. They also make it so that if the ass falls out of this job market like it did in the late 90's (which is why I joined the military in the first place), I can do something else while I wait to get back to the woods. This is what I do. I could make a lot more money working in a power plant, but I hate that work. I'm here because I want to be. The improved quality of life that comes from job satisfaction is well worth the pay cut.

OP: you wanna work in the woods? Do it. Probably won't be easy, but it can be done.

 

[tramp bushler]

Well its good to see I helped coffee get some people wound up today .

If during the decades that I logged and cut timber before I got my first computer + digital camera. Most all I did was wind on er. Didn't do much picture taking . But all my time was spent high ball loggin and mostly bushlin .. I know a bunch of guys who tried to get on but couldn't because they wanted to ( keep their options open ) .
That may be great if all they wanted was $$ . But they didn't make loggers . Of the hundreds of loggers , fallers and mill hands I worked with , None of them got hired because they were college edjucated .
. If Matt wants to log , he just needs to go to work . Not . School . I don't see any tower loggers on here telling him to go to college . .

 

[tramp bushler]

Isn't there a Forestry management forum on AS .
And fire fighting , fightin fires isn't loggin .
When it comes to loggin + fallin timber I have little to no respect for forest fire fighters .

If someone is a fire fighter and likes it Great . But they arn't loggers . And if they actually do falling on a fire line, thats just gettin them on the ground . Thats only half the job of a single jack faller . . Any dummy can tree length . Well maybe not anyone .

 

[Gologit]

. If Matt wants to log , he just needs to go to work . Not . School . I don't see any tower loggers on here telling him to go to college . .

Matt...I'm not a tower logger, I'm a Cat logger. Go to college.

 

[tramp bushler]

And who in the world that loves bein in the timber would want a job where the forest is burning up . . .

Our timber industry went belly up so I went to frameing houses . Super Cargoing ship loading .drilling . And Union Laboring . I execelled at all those execpt for getting along with the wimps and suck ups . One thing I learned growing up loggin in Maine was to work HARD.
When I was in the service that did me well . When I got out and went to work in the brush it was a job requieement . They don't teach that in school .

 

[chaikwa]

Our timber industry went belly up so I went to frameing houses . Super Cargoing ship loading .drilling . And Union Laboring . I execelled at all those execpt for getting along with the wimps and suck ups . One thing I learned growing up loggin in Maine was to work HARD.
When I was in the service that did me well . When I got out and went to work in the brush it was a job requieement . They don't teach that in school .

So basically what you're saying is you can't get along with anyone because they're all wimps and suck ups, (and if I'm remembering correctly from your previous posts, all are on the government dole), and if you aren't a logger, you've never worked hard and never will.

 

[Gologit]

So basically what you're saying is if you aren't a logger, you've never worked hard and never will.

It's what he knows how to do and from all indications he does it damn well. Leave the man alone.

 

[chaikwa]

It's what he knows how to do and from all indications he does it damn well. Leave the man alone.

I think there are a LOT of guys here that do their jobs well, but from his perspective we're all wimps and suck ups on government welfare programs. From my perspective, that opinion doesn't exactly instill admiration towards him. Or respect for that matter.

 

[Gologit]

I think there are a LOT of guys here that do their jobs well, but from his perspective we're all wimps and suck ups on government welfare programs. From my perspective, that opinion doesn't exactly instill admiration towards him. Or respect for that matter.

I doubt that he's concerned with your opinion.

 

[chaikwa]

I doubt that he's concerned with your opinion.

No, I'm sure he's not. Neither is our President.

 

[forestryworks]

I have little to no respect for forest fire fighters .

That's real smart. Don't ever build a house in a fire prone area.

Wildland firefighters are protecting the basis of the industry you speak so proudly of.

It is definitely the toughest working environment of any woods work.

 

[Wazzu]

My suggestions are, in this order:
-Get out of Southern California. It is a whole different world outside of SoCal and you may not even like it in the boonies. If you have family in OR, WA, ID, MT or WY you may be able to visit them and see if the rural life suits you.
-You might consider looking for work in the oil and gas industry in ND and E. MT (I know for a fact that an illegal alien can make 18.00 an hour up there), you will probably meet a bunch of former timber industry guys who are now driving truck, operating machinery, etc. Those guys could share a lot of good advice on the timber industry and you could gain some experience at the same time.
-Whatever job you try for, stay the hell away from drugs and limit your alcohol because most bosses don't want people showing up drunk, high or hungover. Most important be reliable, showing up on time to work means a minimum of 5-10 minutes early. On time is late, if you get my meaning. After a few years and after you establish yourself, then you might consider coming in "on time".
-Keep the good attitude you are now demonstrating and you will be fine.

 

[wowzers]

Last time I checked this was the forestry and logging forum. I have my job in the woods solely because I went to school and was working for a forestry outfit. Let me meet a lot of contractors and show that I wanted to work.

 

[tramp bushler]

Ya . I didn't set out to create a bunch of hate and discontent . And tho I don't desire to cast aspersions on any one , it occasionally happens . Sorry about that . .

However my point is valid and true .
Loggin is loggin . Its not forestry or firefighting or anythingelse . . If a guy wants to go loggin..
He needs to go loggin . Not to college .
Sure , haveing an EMT cert. Is great . But not at all necessary .
The fact is that someone is gonna give you a chance . But your gonna Have to TAKE the job.