Soon new business

[daddycoop]

ok guys do not bomb me here, I am new to the tree OWNER business, ok I have all the goodies like insurance and great equiptment, and right now JUST a side business till I hopefully bloom.
BUT my questions are RATES.
I hope I can ask this without any upsets but how does your company charge, I will be no competition to any of you, I am in OHIO so no worries there
But you charge by the job , by the hour? What works best for your company, just wandering how to be competitive here, and some of your rates would be nice to know so I could get an idea for here, knowing everywhere is different, but got to start somewhere, give me some ideas here

thanks

 

[superjunior]

I bid by the man hr. x time at 60.00 per man hr. so if I think a 3 man crew (180.00 per hr.) could knock a job out in say 5 hrs I'm at around 900.00 give or take. There's other factors too. If I'm slow, are they shopping around, is the job right next to the shop, ect.. I'll come in a little low. If I'm swamped, tree is covered in poison ivy, bees, concrete in the tree, limited access, ect.. .. price goes up

Oh and I'm in Ohio too, stay away from my customers :biggrin:

 

[jefflovstrom]

Haha! Yeah, I can't think of anyone from Ohio!
Jeff

 

[ducaticorse]

DAN, WHERE U @? LOL


You need to decide what you want your net margin to be, and go from there. Of course most of us would like that number to be 10K plus a day, but that's probably not going to be the case. Figure out what all this "trouble" is worth to you, settle on a profit number after ALL your expenses are covered, and adjust from there.

I got it in my head sometime ago that for a 10 hour day give or take, $1800 bucks got me the work, and I beat out most of my comp. I'm sure this had a lot to do with my good looks, my great vocabulary and people skills too lol. That covered 3 guys, my 1-ton, chipper and other operating expenses, and if I didn't blow anything up, which I did on almost every job becuse I had crap stuff, I'd turn a great profit. Since then, I've acquired a bobcat, 60ft int forestry package, an F600 chip dump, 1890HD (end of month) and I don't plan on raising my rates a penny, I'll just get the jobs done MUCH quicker, and make more money by keeping it in my pocket, and increasing productivity.

What you need to be doing is finding out what the guys in YOUR area are charging. From what I've found out from being a member here, is that depending on your geographic location, numbers vary wildly. I think I actually got called a liar on here several times after stating what my crew pulls a day, when actually, I am QUITE reasonable with my pricing in my area.

 

[Kottonwood]

Sounds like reasonable rates to me

 

[ducaticorse]

Sounds like reasonable rates to me

Yes, so do I. With he cost of doing business these days, especially payroll, payroll taxes, WC premiums (14%) and Liability, they should probably be a bit higher LOL. That's what "creative" accounting practices are for I guess.

I think there are many "contract" climbers on here, and employees of other outfits. I believe that these guys, although skilled at their trade, are just simply not aware of the behind the scenes costs of running a legit op. And that's where the day rates, or hourly rate skepticism coomes into play.


Ignorance is BLISS!!!!

 

[superjunior]

DAN, WHERE U @? LOL


You need to decide what you want your net margin to be, and go from there. Of course most of us would like that number to be 10K plus a day, but that's probably not going to be the case. Figure out what all this "trouble" is worth to you, settle on a profit number after ALL your expenses are covered, and adjust from there.

I got it in my head sometime ago that for a 10 hour day give or take, $1800 bucks got me the work, and I beat out most of my comp. I'm sure this had a lot to do with my good looks, my great vocabulary and people skills too lol. That covered 3 guys, my 1-ton, chipper and other operating expenses, and if I didn't blow anything up, which I did on almost every job becuse I had crap stuff, I'd turn a great profit. Since then, I've acquired a bobcat, 60ft int forestry package, an F600 chip dump, 1890HD (end of month) and I don't plan on raising my rates a penny, I'll just get the jobs done MUCH quicker, and make more money by keeping it in my pocket, and increasing productivity.

What you need to be doing is finding out what the guys in YOUR area are charging. From what I've found out from being a member here, is that depending on your geographic location, numbers vary wildly. I think I actually got called a liar on here several times after stating what my crew pulls a day, when actually, I am QUITE reasonable with my pricing in my area.

I'm in Chesterland Oh. about 25 miles east of cleveland. I know my rates are low, hell its what I charged 10 years ago. problem is all my local competition is right in the same range. If everyone around here would just raise their rates a little, well you know. I've been told by customers many time that were shopping for prices that I was right in the middle, and I usually score those jobs

 

[troythetreeman]

dont be the cheapest, be the best
the company i work for has A+ bbb rating and A on angies list, we bid fair, shoot for 300 an hour or so, 4 man crew, mini loader, log loader and stump grinder
you have to bill your equipment out too
any job bid at less then 200$ an hour the company only breaks even
bidding takes time, youll make some mistakes
but we work 4days a week, 10 hour days
when i bid for the company i factor in risk as well, easy notch and drop, lotta clean up, i shoot for 250 or so, lotta risk, high skill level needed, i aim closer to 400
we get paid for drive time from time we leave the yard to the time we get back to it, we have to pull 2k per day

 

[deevo]

dont be the cheapest, be the best
the company i work for has A+ bbb rating and A on angies list, we bid fair, shoot for 300 an hour or so, 4 man crew, mini loader, log loader and stump grinder
you have to bill your equipment out too
any job bid at less then 200$ an hour the company only breaks even
bidding takes time, youll make some mistakes
but we work 4days a week, 10 hour days
when i bid for the company i factor in risk as well, easy notch and drop, lotta clean up, i shoot for 250 or so, lotta risk, high skill level needed, i aim closer to 400
we get paid for drive time from time we leave the yard to the time we get back to it, we have to pull 2k per day

Yep, like he said, $2200 a day for a crew with bucket truck, chipper etc. licenced, WSIB coverage and insured here is decent. Insurance work, whole lot more $. Have to factor in if you need a crane and other special equipment as well. Each job may differ, some days you make a lot, some you don't.

 

[daddycoop]

Thanks guys i had close figures but now i do not have to guess, and i am from no where steubenville, ohio lol

 

[epicklein22]

I'm in Chesterland Oh. about 25 miles east of cleveland. I know my rates are low, hell its what I charged 10 years ago. problem is all my local competition is right in the same range. If everyone around here would just raise their rates a little, well you know. I've been told by customers many time that were shopping for prices that I was right in the middle, and I usually score those jobs

$60 a man hour does seem low, but for whatever reason you can always find someone under that! It would be great if we could raise the prices across the industry. NEO can be a tough market, but where is it easy? Landscapers and trucking ops get that kind of money quite frequently. Established clientele and references are you best bet at making a higher hourly figure.

 

[superjunior]

$60 a man hour does seem low, but for whatever reason you can always find someone under that! It would be great if we could raise the prices across the industry. NEO can be a tough market, but where is it easy? Landscapers and trucking ops get that kind of money quite frequently. Established clientele and references are you best bet at making a higher hourly figure.

:agree2: There's a company right down the street from me that I'm often bidding against. A pretty big outfit too, 4 crews with 2 crane crews and lots of shiny new equipment. His overhead has to be four times more then mine. More often then not he bids lower then me. Don't know how the hell he does it. Sheer volume for cheap? I donno

 

[ducaticorse]

:agree2: There's a company right down the street from me that I'm often bidding against. A pretty big outfit too, 4 crews with 2 crane crews and lots of shiny new equipment. His overhead has to be four times more then mine. More often then not he bids lower then me. Don't know how the hell he does it. Sheer volume for cheap? I donno

With the right equipment, you can cut the time on site down by 2/3 in some cases. That's where he's making up costs, and underbidding you.

 

[JIMMYTreeWizard]

:agree2: There's a company right down the street from me that I'm often bidding against. A pretty big outfit too, 4 crews with 2 crane crews and lots of shiny new equipment. His overhead has to be four times more then mine. More often then not he bids lower then me. Don't know how the hell he does it. Sheer volume for cheap? I donno

Each crew covers their variable costs plus a percentage of the company's fixed costs. With only one crew that crew must cover 100% of the fixed costs. With 4 crews each crew only needs to cover 1/4 of the company's fixed costs so the break even point for each individual crew in a larger company is often smaller.

And the new equipment definitely saves money too!

 

[superjunior]

With the right equipment, you can cut the time on site down by 2/3 in some cases. That's where he's making up costs, and underbidding you.

that's why I just bought a crane. haven't had it long but man is it a time saver

 

[ducaticorse]

that's why I just bought a crane. haven't had it long but man is it a time saver

I'm about 2 years out from a crane. Attempting at a cash sale, I DISLIKE payments What'd you get?

 

[superjunior]

I hear ya about the payments.. bought it from a buddy of mine who upgraded. 14 ton manitex 1461. not the biggest crane on the block but it sure is sweet setting picks down right in the chipper. think my groundies are happier then me, saves them ALOT of grunt work. posted a pic in the crane newbie thread