Srt

[G.I. tree guy]

Would a prusik cord used in combination with a Pantin be safe for ascending on single line? A back-up is not needed for footlocking on double line but will the cord hold on single line? If so what hitch or prusik is best suited for this application?

 

[tjk]

I do not think you would have to back up a hitch.I do think that using a hitch would be to difficult to advance, try a six coil prusik of a klemhiest. Try it slow and low, your cord to rope sizes might not work well.

 

[jblimbwalker]

When using the Pantin I tie in at ground, distel with micro pulley on a Williams and then simply climb up the rope as the hitch will advance with you. I'm assuming this is the pretty much the standard for using the Pantin. Look at the Pantin ad in Sherrill and refer to the pic. As far as using the prusik, I wouldnt want my hands above it in case the rope slipped from the Pantin, which can happen time to time, especially when first becoming acquainted with it. And of course we all know not to decend on prusik alone, back it up with an 8.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Most guys I know use a backup, or self belay as a chest ascender, manytimes on a sling across the chest connected to the saddle to reduce the inherant slop.

If there is enough risk involved in DdRT footlocking that the ITCC rules require a dorsal belay, why would you not want a backup in your working system?

I met a guy, former USMC Force Recon, who works on SRT. If I remeober right he has a handled ascender over an eight with a prusick backup for the ascender. He understands rope climbing better then kost, so this setup is more eficient for him.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

My personal feeling is that arbos are working in a very unsafe mode when ascending without two attachements. The Pantin and most foot ascenders don't count as a point of attachment.

There is a growing faction of climbers who have turned their backs on single attachment SRT. Consider joining up with this group.

I know that it is common to just use an ascending loop and go up the rope. Since most other working rope disciplines don't use one point of attachment, why do arbos? Its a tradition that should be put to rest. There are three people that I know personally who have fallen because of equipment failure while ascending. Indirectly, I've heard of several more near misses. That is TOO MANY for me. Learning to use a backed up ascending system is easy and inexpensive, besides, all you have to do is consider my two least favorite words:

Widows and orphans

Tom

 

[ok2climb]

When i go up on a single line i employ a petzl top handled ascender, a petzl micro ascender underneath that as my back up and then the pantin with a small ****** in that hole keeping the rope in place. I've never had any slip up or in no way has my confidence been shaken with any of petzls equip.
Proper understanding and use of the equipment is a must, and as always saftey first.

 

[ok2climb]

I found that if i dont have a ****** in there that my rope will come out with every draw up with my leg, resulting in me having to constantly slip it back into place. My mico-ascender that i use as my saftey will prevent me from ending up upside down. I attach that right to my D with a william ball ******,
my rope feeds thru it with no problem. I tried many variations of different backups( kleimheist above top ascender, 4 rap prussik of tennex) and none
has worked any better. The issue was brought up at our weekly saftey mtg.
and me and my district manager decided that my system was up to all ANSI
standards. I do no work off of my ascenders, their sole purpose is for entering the tree only. If anyone has come up with another system i would love to hear about it, and see how it would work. I only use this system when dealing with long vertical ascents, for shorter ascents my distel with a fixed pulley and the pantin work fine and i'm able to work as i go.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

ok2 climb,

Do you know that the Pantin doesn't count as an attachment to the rope? The only attachment points that can be considered need to be above your waist.

If the rope is slipping out of the P, you should try moving it around on your ankle. By adjusting the position you'll find a place that it stays without clipping a biner. I find that putting the P so that the rope comes up just in front of my ankle bone keeps the rope fair. Most people put the P up too high on their ankle. It should be just in front and below your ankle bone.

Tom

 

[ok2climb]

Tom,

I do know that the pantin isnt an attachment point, by no means would it be able to hold the weight of a climber. My top handled ascender is attached to my D with a CMI sling and a ******, then as my 2nd attachment point i use a micro-ascender with a ****** on my D as well. Most people use these for their lanyards, fliplines. I run my rope thru that and as i ascend it comes right up with me at waist level, the pantin is below on my left leg. I will definitley try repositioning as you said and hopefully that will reduce the amount of hardware on my saddle. Some guys's go with bare minimum on their saddles
but i've always been a pack rat and carry it all. Thats why i go with a lightweight saddle, it makes up for 5lbs of other crap i carry. Thanks for the info tom.

 

[Stumper]

Er.... of course the Pantin can hold the weight of a climber-how else would it be able to fnction as a ascencion aid? The point is that it was never intended as a critical safety attachment but as an ascencion aid only.:angel:

 

[Tom Dunlap]

At a training that I did last winter I asked the group if they new that the P wasn't for personal support.

One of the crews that was there started to chuckle and poke each other. I knew there was a story. Turns out, the climber had been using a handled ascender without a backup. The climber thumbed the cam and slipped. The P caught their fall but the climber ended up hanging upside down. His head was about two feet from the ground. Lucky guy.

This is the same company that would show up for trainings with shiny helmets. When I was talking with them I wondered why they bought brand new helmets just for the training. More chuckles and pokes. Turns out, they only wear helmets for trainings and the day that the insurance company inspects them. This was until the owner gotted bopped on the head from a dropped branch. A few stiches later and he bought mountaineering helmets for the crew. Duh...

I've been using an ISC/Yates Rocker for my lower ascender. It is a wonderful tool! It can be used as a gear hauler and belay tool too so it earns its place in my saddle pouch by doing triple duty.

Tom

 

[ok2climb]

Exactly Stumper, when you are using the pantin its either with a friction hitch
or another mechanical device, depending on you set-up.
I was out of context when i said it wouldnt support the weight of a climber, i should have included " By itself the pantin cannot support you" Regardless,
its a valuable piece of equipment that can save both time and energy, making the task at hand more efficent and productive.

Tom,
Is the isc/yates ascender like the petzl minitraxion? I've never used one before. Any info would be much appreciated.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The Rocker does more than an MT and it does it all better.

http://www.yatesgear.com/rescue/hardware/index.htm#10

Look at the climbing version too.

http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml


Gary reviewed the Rocker.

The Rocker is siimilar to an Ushba ascender. No teeth or cams as such. The Rocker is much easier to put on the rope. The cheek plates open up like a pulley. It also has a slip grab function in case the climber falls onto the rope. The shock load to the climber, rope and anchor is lessened.

Tom

 

[ok2climb]

Tom,

Thanks for the excellent links and all the info.