Stihl MS441 vs MS440...

[windthrown]

OK, I have been pondering why Stihl is stihl selling the 440 after it has come out with the new 441. Seemed odd to me anyway. It would seem like the new strato engine and anti-vibe springs would be what people want. OK, it has a fatter body. But the market seems to be saying it prefers the 440.

I was down at the local Stihl dealer here today oogling over a 441. It has a full wrap (really a 3/4 wrap but Stihl calls it a full wrap), dual big dogs, and a 32 inch ES bar. About $850. I asked the dealer about it and we chatted a bit. He says he has yet to sell a 441 there. Has sold three or four 440s in the time he has had the 441 in stock. Says none of the pros around here want a 441 yet.

Stihl pondering...

 

[Tzed250]

it's hard to break the tie that binds

 

[Cedarkerf]

Looked at a 441 at the dealer the other day just felt foreign to me. The loggers around here have bought some and given positive feed back on it. If I had the cash I think I would be picking up another 440. I just love that saw.

 

[Cheese]

I fought a similar issue.

Wanted/needed a saw to pull a 25" bar most every weekend in cottonwood and pine. Something simple, proven and strong.

One dealer had a 440 like I wanted. The other wanted to get me on a 441 that would be ordered in. I was looking for wrap saws with a wide nose 25" bar.

I ran a 440, liked it and started waiting for the tax return.

The shop with the 440 said Intermountain Stihl had no more 440's on the shelf with the wrap, but we could get a regular and add the handle at a cost.

The shop with the 441 wanted to BS me on safety chain, etc.

Talked to the 440 shop, they said since they didn't have to order it and since it had been sitting on the shelf, was essentially a discountinued nuisance to them and wanted an excuse to get a 441, and because they wanted to make a deal, we talked numbers.

Out the door with a wrap 440, wide nose 25, a loop of RSC and two of RSF, files and a scabbard for under $800. 5 tanks of fuel later, I love it. This is a proven work horse saw that I can keep clean and work. The 441 may be that soon, but I wanted a sure thing.

 

[Cheese]

Because pics are cool:

 

[KindlingKing]

When I picked up my 660 the other day, I asked the dealer how the 441 was selling. He said the loggers were loving it. It has more torque and good old fashioned grunt as compared to the 440.

They had a slow start with the saw, since the 440 is such a well respected model. He says they are now selling far more 441's. This dealer is pretty well respected. They are in big timber country and sell the full range of Husky and Stihl pro saws. They have every pro saw in stock, including the MS880 and the 3120.

I've heard it said that Stihl USA is only selling a handful of MS880's in the US. I find it hard to believe because I'm pretty sure this dealer can account for that many by themselves in the last year. They sell a LOT of 660 class saws. When I say big timber, I mean 36' plus conifers.

Stihl is by far the biggest seller in that shop but it is nice to walk in and see everything in the husky line-up, especially the 372. The greatest thing is that you can't get a single pro saw in this shop that doesn't have the full wrap handle. If you want it with the half wrap they kinda eye you like you are a homeowner. Since the customer is always right, they might ask you a few leading questions like "You sure you don't want to look at this nice 310. Its a good saw for firewood". If you are really serious about laying down heard earned dollars on a pro saw with a half wrap, "well sure, I guess I could special order that for you if you have a use for a saw with half a handle.."

 

[Cedarkerf]

Somebody posted video of BC logger dropping 6 ft cedar with a 660. It shows why they dont sell more 880s just too heavy and 660 can get it done.

 

[KindlingKing]

Somebody posted video of BC logger dropping 6 ft cedar with a 660. It shows why they dont sell more 880s just too heavy and 660 can get it done.

Very true. I don't plan to take on any jobs that require the 880. I'll bet that the 880 isn't moving all that hot but it seems that more than just a handful are sold in the US in a given year. I have a local shop that moves one every few months. A lot of big eucs (6' foot dbh) in this area and the tree services go for the old 084's and the 880's when working hardwood that big. I have a friend in the tree business who will be replacing 4 worn out 084's with new 880's this year. That's just one tree service that is local. Gotta believe that more than a handful of 880's are selling. Just glad I'm not slinging them.

 

[Cheese]

The 880 is a brute.

The 660 with a 36" bar is all I would care to run for an extended period.

If you're in big trees, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

The 440 is a good working saw. If you want to pull 32" of bar reliably, I think there are better saws for that plan.

To me, the average man can justify a 440 class saw for taking care of personal stuff. Any more and it is either business or an addiction.

 

[KindlingKing]

To me, the average man can justify a 440 class saw for taking care of personal stuff. Any more and it is either business or an addiction.

I had to get into the business to justify the addiction.....

 

[RiverRat2]

The 880 is a brute.
To me, the average man can justify a 440 class saw for taking care of personal stuff. Any more and it is either business or an addiction.

Man I love it when you talk dirty!!!!!!

LOL,,,,,

 

[Lakeside53]

OK, I have been pondering why Stihl is stihl selling the 440 after it has come out with the new 441. Seemed odd to me anyway. It would seem like the new strato engine and anti-vibe springs would be what people want. OK, it has a fatter body. But the market seems to be saying it prefers the 440.

I was down at the local Stihl dealer here today oogling over a 441. It has a full wrap (really a 3/4 wrap but Stihl calls it a full wrap), dual big dogs, and a 32 inch ES bar. About $850. I asked the dealer about it and we chatted a bit. He says he has yet to sell a 441 there. Has sold three or four 440s in the time he has had the 441 in stock. Says none of the pros around here want a 441 yet.

Stihl pondering...

They were just hedging their bets.. and came up wining - like new coke and classic coke... Husky did the same with the 575 and 372, but the fat lady is singing... The Full Wrap 440 is no longer available except for dealer stock, and the MS440 is in the final production run (for the USA right now... June deliveries are to be the last. Many resist change, and why not? - there's nothing wrong with the 440, except in the eyes of the EPA.

 

[windthrown]

Its a 3/4 wrap...

They sell a LOT of 660 class saws. When I say big timber, I mean 36' plus conifers.

Stihl is by far the biggest seller in that shop but it is nice to walk in and see everything in the husky line-up, especially the 372. The greatest thing is that you can't get a single pro saw in this shop that doesn't have the full wrap handle. If you want it with the half wrap they kinda eye you like you are a homeowner. Since the customer is always right, they might ask you a few leading questions like "You sure you don't want to look at this nice 310. Its a good saw for firewood". If you are really serious about laying down heard earned dollars on a pro saw with a half wrap, "well sure, I guess I could special order that for you if you have a use for a saw with half a handle.."

Hmmmmmm, I had the same conversation today with the Stihl dealer here, except we were refering to the so-called Stihl "full wrap". Its a 3/4 wrap. A full wrap bar goes all around the saw. If you look at my avatar closely you can see one. Something I had a hard time figuring out on some other AS threads. 3/4 bars being referred to as full wrap. I do not understand why they call them full wrap when they are 3/4 wrap. I want one becasue my girlfriend is left handed. And they are cool, and in those rare situations they are actually usable. But even with a 3/4 wrap the bar is still on the right side of the saw... so a south paw is still sawing with the blade on the upside of the saw.

 

[Cedarkerf]

Hmmmmmm, I had the same conversation today with the Stihl dealer here, except we were refering to the so-called Stihl "full wrap". Its a 3/4 wrap. A full wrap bar goes all around the saw. If you look at my avatar closely you can see one. Something I had a hard time figuring out on some other AS threads. 3/4 bars being referred to as full wrap. I do not understand why they call them full wrap when they are 3/4 wrap. I want one becasue my girlfriend is left handed. And they are cool, and in those rare situations they are actually usable. But even with a 3/4 wrap the bar is still on the right side of the saw... so a south paw is still sawing with the blade on the upside of the saw.

We also have big-azz conifers here in central Oregon. They also have them in WA, NV, ID, MT and BC. Old growth less than a mile from here is 4+ ft DBH. The Stihl shops here sell 90% of their saws (pro or otherwise) with half wraps. Nothing pro or homeowner about that. Really... there are 5 Stihl shops within an hour of here, and they sell mostly half wrap saws. The 441 I saw today was one of the few I have seen new with a 3/4 wrap on it.

As for Husky, well, most of the Stihl shops here are also Husky dealers. I am just not a Husky type I guess. I am a certified StihlHead. I said that to the dealer today as I left his shop, after he said that they ruined the high end Husky with a 441 type conversion and dogged it out. He agreed with me and said that if I drop by his house I will find 3 Stihl saws there... and no Huskys.

My shop seems to sell 3/4 as standard. Madsen's shelves are full of 3/4 wraps. I couldn't imagine only having half wrap but thats just me. I will say that mostall the wraps are 440,441,460 and 660. So by shear numbers the home owner saws may outsell the wrap models. My dealer still has several 3/4 440's he stocked up on them because of the high demand, he carries all the big models a lot of times even an 880s on the shelf.

 

[windthrown]

They were just hedging their bets.. and came up wining - like new coke and classic coke... Husky did the same with the 575 and 372, but the fat lady is singing... The Full Wrap 440 is no longer available except for dealer stock, and the MS440 is in the final production run (for the USA right now... June deliveries are to be the last. Many resist change, and why not? - there's nothing wrong with the 440, except in the eyes of the EPA.

Phasing out the 440. Makes sence. What is next in the '1' line? 461? 651? 661? 881 (ho ho ho)? .

 

[Erick]

I posted this on another thread a while back and thought it applied here pretty well to.

This is the legendary 044/MS440 that you see people talking about all the time on here. I have never owned one so I can't speak for it myself, but I will say this; I think this saw is a 1980's left over from the Stihl's 0X4 lineup.

Now before you 044 guys get your panties in a wad let me explain. Back in the late 80's/early 90's all of the Stihl professional saws were 0 something 4 (i.e. 024, 034, 044, 064, 084), when Stihl changed to the 0X6 models most of the saws got a slight increase in bore size and as a result a little more HP. It is my opinion that the 044 was due to be discontinued along with the rest of the 0X4 lineup at that time and would be replaced with the 046. But due to its extreme popularity and strong sales stihl figured they would just leave it in the lineup until sales dropped off and people found the 046 to be a suitable replacement. Some 20 years later they are still (or were) building the saw and sales have never declined, the public voted with their dollars and the 044 stayed in the lineup. I think that speaks volumes for the faith real loggers and people who depend on a saw for a living have placed in the 044/440 over the years. When Stihl decided that it was time for some real changes in their saw designs they choose their most popular firewood saw the 036/MS360 as a test market for the new designs to see if the general public would accept the new designs. Now it's time to test the professional logging end of the market and guess which saw they choose the beloved 044. If the logging industry will accept the changes to their favorite saw then the rest of the lineup is sure to be accepted. It is now once again up to us the buying public to vote with our dollars and tell stihl if we approve or not. As I said in another thread I personally don't like the added weight on the MS441 and will vote no with my dollars, but then again I haven't had the (what I understand to be) pleasure of running one yet. I may change my mind once I've had one in hand.

 

[Eccentric]

Very true. I don't plan to take on any jobs that require the 880. I'll bet that the 880 isn't moving all that hot but it seems that more than just a handful are sold in the US in a given year. I have a local shop that moves one every few months. A lot of big eucs (6' foot dbh) in this area and the tree services go for the old 084's and the 880's when working hardwood that big. I have a friend in the tree business who will be replacing 4 worn out 084's with new 880's this year. That's just one tree service that is local. Gotta believe that more than a handful of 880's are selling. Just glad I'm not slinging them.

Where in NorCal are you? Who's your dealer?

 

[F350ps4x4]

Just brought home a 441 today. Had it running in my hand, it is smooth, Can't wait to start cutting wood.

Bought it with a 20"ES bar and RSC3 chain.

Will post once I start cutting.

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Times change and things progress...........seems Stihl has a good handle on both with the 441!!!

 

[KindlingKing]

Where in NorCal are you? Who's your dealer?

I'm not far from Jackson. The dealer is just east of Jackson on hwy 88. Not sure the rules let me say who it is since they aren't an arborist site sponsor. I'm new, so don't want to run afoul of rules. If its OK to call them out, I'd be more than happy to. Anyhow, they really have top notch service and don't speak a bad word about Stihl or Husky. They are nothing but positivein their comments and won't push you one way or the other. That is good in my book.

Windthrown, you got me on a technicality. Thanks for catching it and keeping me honest. The Stihl pro saws are all set up with the 3/4 wrap handles (at this shop). I like the larger chain guard the 3/4 wrap saw comes with. I'll confirm with my dealer but my saw may have also come with the high output oiler. That is a plus in my book if it is the case.