Stop the confusion!!! Help us end the use of DdRT/DbRT nomenclature. SDRT MDRT !!

[CoreyTMorine]

Tree Machine has had to explain to me the difference between DdRT and DbRT for the umpteenth time, I can’t take it anymore:bang: ! So he suggested that we begin using MDRT (Motion or Moving Doubled rope Technique) instead of DdRT, and SDRT (Static Doubled Rope Technique) instead of DbRT.

I for one love the idea, no more do I go cross eyed trying to decipher the two. So much easier to visualize, it lowers my bloood presure just thinking about it


Throw off the oppressive shackles of the old!!! Please show your support for this new system, here and wherever else you may discus climbing.

Here is the original, which explains it far more accurately;

Acronym misery, I agree, but there are two doubled rope methods, not double rope as Corey states above- that would be using two seperate lines (two ropes), hence 'double'. Doubled is the same rope, one side going up, the other side going down. That's where we get the Dd in DdRT

Of the two doubled rope methods, the one far more extensively used in Arboriculture is the 2:1, friction hitch system, with or without a split tail, this has been coined DdRT, even in the Sherrill catalogs. The two sides of the rope move opposite directions, relative to one another. There is motion and friction at the crotch-over point.

The other doubled rope method, the nearly unknown and non-existant DbRT, I assume, gets the 'b' from the middle letter of the word 'doubled'. That's my best guess, anyway. In this one, both ends of the rope stay on the ground. A backed-up dual ascender gets you up the rope, or a prussik, a la the thread starter's guy (if you have balls that size). Once up, the ascenders come off, friction control is put on and you work the rope on the two, parallel lines, both ends still staying on the ground and no rope travel (ie, no friction) at the tie-in point. All friction control comes from in front of you, just like in SRT. This is done with some sort of device.

Hope that clarifies, crystal clear. The problem, still, is the nomenclature, what to call them, how to term them. I'm not sure we have the liberty to go and decide and change names here, but I'm in agreement that the DdRT - DbRT thing is very confusing.

MDRT is a really good name, I think, and the acronym says more clearly what that rope technique involves; motion. The rope sides move up and down as you move upo and down.

For the other,I like 'static doubled rope' as the rope is static, from the motion sense, but that allows confusion that one might think it involves a static climbing rope (in contrast to a dynamic or semi-static), which it can, but any type of rope can be used. This would be SDRT.

Our conventional DdRT would be MDRT, the lesser known doubled rope method would be SDRT and then the unambiguous SRT. SDRT and MDRT would more clearly describe the two doubled rope methods, but at the same time, very, very, very few climb the 1:1 doubled rope method. The naming of this lesser method is more to keep in frame that it does exist. SDRT might be read as 'Single Doubled Rope Technique' which is actually OK as the actual handling of the rope is identical to SRT, only you you have the two lines going through friction control instead of just one.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Since I clame the coinage of the DdRT acrnym (the use of the lowercase d), I cannot support it's retiring.


Haow about dynamic dubled rope technique DDRT and SDRT:biggrinbounce2:

How'bout "Traditional Doubled Rope Technique"? That would let any oldschool taughtline man know that he knows what is being talked about.

Single Hitch Intratree Technique That would get an auto censor

I hereby throw my support behind TDRT as the A'Stite official acronym for the most common work positioning system in the industry.

BTW the whole thing came up because some guys with rock background thought that it could be confused with the double, or paired rope used there.

 

[moray]

I hereby throw my support behind TDRT as the A'Stite official acronym for the most common work positioning system in the industry.

The trouble with this it doesn't directly convey anything--the meaning of the initial T requires insider knowledge. M, on the other hand, directly points to the crucial distinction between MDRT and all other rope techniques.

A good acronym should be clearly distinct from related acronyms, easy to remember, and, if possible, actually convey information. I might vote to leave out the D, since there is no MSRT to confuse it with, and since the acronym is not intended to convey every possible fact about the thing it stands for. But DdRT and DbRT are so insanely wretched I would even vote for XYZ.

 

[woodchux]

Yall are just making it more confusing. I'd simplify things down to DRT-SRT-and SRT2.

 

[moray]

Yall are just making it more confusing. I'd simplify things down to DRT-SRT-and SRT2.

I agree. Less is better.

But let's get rid of the last D--you never know if it means Doubled or Double. You could use ART for Arborist Rope Technique, or simply MRT.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

But DdRT and DbRT are so insanely wretched I would even vote for XYZ.

lol

Since I clame the coinage of the DdRT acrnym (the use of the lowercase d), I cannot support it's retiring.

You are responsible for all this confusion!!! :angry2:
“Get him.” lol

I agree. Less is better.

But let's get rid of the last D--you never know if it means Doubled or Double. You could use ART for Arborist Rope Technique, or simply MRT.

Isn’t ART something in the rock climbing world?

Anyway:

Possible replacements for DdRT are;
• ART = Arborist Rope Technique
• MRT = Moving Rope Technique
• TRT = Traditional Rope Technique
• DRT = Doubled or Double Rope Technique
• MDRT = Moving Doubled Rope Technique

Possible replacements for DbRT are;
• SDRT = Static Doubled or Double Rope Technique
• SRT2 = Single Rope Technique Two ?

And SRT will remain Single Rope Technique.

Are there any more contenders?

 

[CoreyTMorine]

For myself I really like the continuity of SRT, MDRT, and SDRT. It divides things neatly into Double or Single, and then makes the further division of Double into Static and Movement based technique.

If we remove the D then we lose some of the continuity that links, and thereby helps to define, all 3 acronyms. The D also helps to link the new nomenclature with the old, thereby easing the transition.

I’m sure this solution has been tumbling around inside TM’s head for a while now, as he would think a little about it every time he had to re-explain the difference between DbRT and DdRT. That kind of unconscious problem solving is very good if you give it enough time to work. I’m betting that anything that was thought up in the spur of the moment, while reading this thread, will not be as good over the long term.

My plan here is to let this stew for a while, after the ideas slow down we’ll set up a pole and just have a vote. Hopefully it takes. I don’t think it will take much convincing to get people to make a switch, the difficult part will be keeping everyone on the same page.

 

[Fireaxman]

... Haow about dynamic dubled rope technique DDRT and SDRT...:biggrinbounce2:

I too have struggled with the "DdRT and DbRT" acronyms, but I would like to "Amen" John Paul's most recent suggestion. This seems to me more consistent with TCC, which uses the terms "Dynamic" and "Static" in the description of the basic climbing techniques page 35 rather than the term "Moving".

 

[gasman]

The confusion may rest in the fact that with the current system:

S can mean static or single

D can mean dynamic or doulble

:crazy1:

In addition is what treeco said about the confusion of rope type vs. climbing technique

With the proposed system, There is no overlap!

M means dynamic

D means double

S means static ( The S in SRT might get a little confused but not enough to be a problem)

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I don't like how the words static and dynamic are being used to mean moving and unmoving ropes and ropes that have stretch or minimal stretch. Just more confusion. Moving rope really is a better description.

I too do not like "static line" for the low streach ropes. All ropes streach, these are just very low. SOme are like 1% @ 30% of tensil.

Compared to rock ropes, arbor-climb lines are low streach.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

I don't like how the words static and dynamic are being used to mean moving and unmoving ropes and ropes that have stretch or minimal stretch. Just more confusion. Moving rope really is a better description.

+1 All things will be much clearer if we can get away from both “static” and “dynamic” as descriptors for climbing technique; the rope industry and recreational climbing world have already grabbed those terms for something else.

Although…

I too do not like "static line" for the low streach ropes. All ropes streach, these are just very low. SOme are like 1% @ 30% of tensil.

Compared to rock ropes, arbor-climb lines are low streach.

That’s a great point John!!! Infernal climbing rope manufacturers, we should start a petition to make them change their naming scheme. That’s what started this whole mess anyway

Maybe in TM’s new scheme the “S” should stand for stationary; that would go better with “M” for motion anyway.

 

[Gumneck]

A vote for ban on all those acronyms. Just type it out.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

How about S for Stationary in SDRT? This would be a better compliment to M For Moving in MDRT, and also remove the confusion of Static rope VS. Static technique.

DdRT replaced by MDRT (Moving Doubled Rope Technique)
DbRT replaced by SDRT (Stationary Doubled Rope Technique)

 

[ckliff]

I use:

MDRT (motion doubled) in most climbing situations.

SDRT (stationary doubled) for footlocking, but I'm not too good at it.

SRT (single) coming down a spar with an eight below my hitch.

These are my votes. Let it be written. Let it be done. :greenchainsaw:

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Amen brother, that makes perfect sense.

 

[Tree Machine]

Thread has been moved to Rec Climbing, HERE.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I use:

MDRT (motion doubled) in most climbing situations.

SDRT (stationary doubled) for footlocking, but I'm not too good at it.

SRT (single) coming down a spar with an eight below my hitch.

These are my votes. Let it be written. Let it be done. :greenchainsaw:

To me the two DRT you mention are the same, it is a doubled rope running through a crotch or friction saver. A doubled foot lock is pretty much for entry only, then you come off it and pull an end up to climb on the traditional system. By splitting them up, you parse the vernacular too much.

Now what do you call it if you climb DRT traditional hitched to an single line anchored like an SRT line? Hybrid Rope Technique, or HRT?

 

[woodchux]

Now what do you call it if you climb DRT traditional hitched to an single line anchored like an SRT line? Hybrid Rope Technique, or HRT?

I call it TRT= Triple Rope Technique