Story of two sawyers...

[aarolar]

I am looking to have some lumber sawed from some free pines I have access to. These pines are 28"+ in diameter and who knows how tall. I have the equipment to safely fall these trees and deliver to each sawyer in 16' lengths and pick up sawed lumber and bring to my place and stack to dry. Goal for the lumber is to build a shop out back of my house for my woodworking endeavors.

So call sawyer one and he says .30 cents a BF for anything over 20" in diameter and .35 cents for anything under 20" in diameter and has no issues at all getting right on it.

Call sawyer #2 for second opinion and get an ear full, basically he states that I am wasting my time because I am going to loose 1/3 of whatever is cut due to warpage during drying. Also states that is is not as simple as cutting to size and stacking to dry then use he says it has to be cut oversize and then dried and then resawed to remove warpage and get to size. Basically tells me unless I am looking to cut large beams or some type of special wood I am wasting my time.

So I call sawyer #1 back and ask about all the issues #2 brought up and he says that is all bull that he has lumber dry laying on his yard I am welcome to come look at anytime. He doesn't have issues with warpage and there is no need to resaw. :msp_ohmy:

So which one is right and is the quote #1 gave me a fair price? Am I just wasting my time and should I just go to the hardware store instead of trying to have the lumber sawed? Advise me AS...

BTW looking to have dimensional 2x6's and 2x4's cut.

 

[Mac88]

I've bought a lot of rough-sawn pine over the years, mostly green, that I stickered up in my garage for home construction projects. Mostly 1 and 2 by stock. I never had a problem with warpage, cupping, or checking. I think #2 is telling you he doesn't want your business. Probably due to the quantity of lumber involved. Just my opinion.

If you want it S4S dimensional, it will require planing or drum sanding and probably a run across a jointer to square the edges.

 

[aarolar]

I've bought a lot of rough-sawn pine over the years, mostly green, that I stickered up in my garage for home construction projects. Mostly 1 and 2 by stock. I never had a problem with warpage, cupping, or checking. I think #2 is telling you he doesn't want your business. Probably due to the quantity of lumber involved. Just my opinion.

If you want it S4S dimensional, it will require planing or drum sanding and probably a run across a jointer to square the edges.

You lost me please speak english. :msp_tongue:

 

[Sagetown]

I bought a whole trailer load of green cut oak 2x6"x12' for my corrals in 1991. Never had a problem with warp. They are beginning to rot out now though.

 

[Cody Colston]

The Pine lumber will be fine if rough-sawn and air dried. That 2nd sawyer is full of bad info.

Now, if you want smooth 1 1/2" thick lumber with nice radiused corners like at the lumberyard or Box store, you would need to have the lumber sawn 8/4 (2" thick) dried to ~19% MC, and then planed to final thickness. That's unnecessary work for construction lumber, though.

I saw construction Pine for my own use to full dimension. A 2 x 4 is actually 2" x 4" in size. You could have it sawn 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" and it would still be okay.

If the 2 x 4's will be 16 ft. then you probably will come out ahead having them sawn. If they are for studs, then you might want to do some cost calculating. Figuring in the fuel to haul the logs to the sawyer plus the milling cost, it might actually be cheaper to buy them from a lumberyard. There are 5.3 board feet in an 8 ft. 2x4 so just the milling is $1.60 each. The other side of the story is that it's just plain satisfying to turn trees into usable lumber. That satisfaction is worth something...at least to me.

Anyway, when you get the sawn lumber home, put it in stickered stacks to dry. (google stickering lumber if you aren't familiar with the process) Cover the top with something to keep water off the wood but still allow air circulation through the stack and be patient. Air drying 2" lumber is a slow process this time of year. The good news is that it's probably too cold for it to develop mold.

You could actually build with green lumber but by letting it dry it will be lighter, much easier to handle and about twice as strong.

S4S - surfaced four sides.

 

[aarolar]

The Pine lumber will be fine if rough-sawn and air dried. That 2nd sawyer is full of bad info.

Now, if you want smooth 1 1/2" thick lumber with nice radiused corners like at the lumberyard or Box store, you would need to have the lumber sawn 8/4 (2" thick) dried to ~19% MC, and then planed to final thickness. That's unnecessary work for construction lumber, though.

I saw construction Pine for my own use to full dimension. A 2 x 4 is actually 2" x 4" in size. You could have it sawn 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" and it would still be okay.

I want dimensional lumber I do not want modern day stuff.

If the 2 x 4's will be 16 ft. then you probably will come out ahead having them sawn. If they are for studs, then you might want to do some cost calculating. Figuring in the fuel to haul the logs to the sawyer plus the milling cost, it might actually be cheaper to buy them from a lumberyard. There are 5.3 board feet in an 8 ft. 2x4 so just the milling is $1.60 each. The other side of the story is that it's just plain satisfying to turn trees into usable lumber. That satisfaction is worth something...at least to me.

As far as the studs I was planning on using 2x6 studs, this shop will be insulated and the more insulation the merrier I say.

Anyway, when you get the sawn lumber home, put it in stickered stacks to dry. (google stickering lumber if you aren't familiar with the process) Cover the top with something to keep water off the wood but still allow air circulation through the stack and be patient. Air drying 2" lumber is a slow process this time of year. The good news is that it's probably too cold for it to develop mold.

You could actually build with green lumber but by letting it dry it will be lighter, much easier to handle and about twice as strong.

S4S - surfaced four sides.

Answers in red

 

[4x4American]

You lost me please speak english. :msp_tongue:

s4s means surfaced four sides. basically it's planed on each side. most dimensional lumber comes like this.

 

[Mac88]

You lost me please speak english. :msp_tongue:

Sorry. Cody's got it covered for me.

I bought a whole trailer load of green cut oak 2x6"x12' for my corrals in 1991. Never had a problem with warp. They are beginning to rot out now though.

You have hedge over there, don't you. Hedge will last pretty near forever.

You could actually build with green lumber but by letting it dry it will be lighter, much easier to handle and about twice as strong.

S4S - surfaced four sides.

And a lot less prone to warp.

 

[brookpederson]

Guy #2 sounds like he would rather be selling women's perfume at macy's than cuting on his sawmill. Thats the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard 1/3 of lumber lost to warping, he must not know how to dry lumber. Maybe he doesn't sticker his stacks and just piles it up all willy nilly like. Go with #1

 

[GeeVee]

Its a tough decision.

Right now lumber is cheap, and convenient to go to big box.

I build alot.

I have trees, more than I can count. I could buy a mill, but I'm lazy, except when I am fired up, then I'm on FIRE.

I still have Oak and Hickory from 2005 when I had a LT 40 come to me.

If I buy a mill it will be to square off some big cants and let them dry, then resaw some but probably do some post and beam joinery.

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[GeeVee]

Re-read your post.

If you have the equipment such as I have- get the trees squared off to cants, and build post and beam. Then buy metal or Hardie Cement siding.

You can get satisfaction, but not frustration.

 

[Mac88]

Its a tough decision. Right now lumber is cheap, and convenient to go to big box.

Yea, but so much of that is crap. You have to dig through an entire bunk of 2 by's to find a dozen decent sticks. Too much is of it looks like it was grown in a greenhouse, 24/7. Look at the rings. Jeez, you even run across live-edged heartwood. Looks like it was sawn from 6 or 8" logs.

If I had pine available, I'd mill all my dimensional construction lumber from it and pay to have it kiln dried. At least I'd feel comfortable with the finished product.

Good looking setup. Repped you on the LT40.

 

[Sagetown]

You have hedge over there, don't you. Hedge will last pretty near forever.

There's an old established large sawmill / lumber yard way back up in the mountains. They sell both rough pine and oak lumber. If a man took them a truck load of hedge, they'd likely saw it up for him.

 

[mikeb1079]

sawyer one is right. that being said i would just go purchase the lumber and build. tough to beat the big boxes for structural lumber, now large beams and hardwoods otoh....

 

[Mac88]

There's an old established large sawmill / lumber yard way back up in the mountains. They sell both rough pine and oak lumber. If a man took them a truck load of hedge, they'd likely saw it up for him.

We saw it on the LT30. It's hard to get large dimension lumber out of it here, since most of the large, somewhat straight trees are getting scarce. It takes a little more work
than milling out a big oak cant and sawing it into planks. But you can get decent lumber out of it, and all the cut-offs make great firewood.

Here's what we encounter:

Not much usable lumber in this one. A prime firewood candidate.

We'll get quite a bit of decent lumber out of this one by careful milling. This stick is around 24" dbh and pretty straight for about 14'.

 

[hamish]

Sawyer One, it basically telling you a 2x4x8 is going to cost you $1.59 to $1.86 for a rough cut piece. Dependant upon the sawyer this can be as structuarly sound as a tooth pick (of a toothpick my be stronger). Good deal bad deal, depends on the logs and the sawyer.

Sawyer Two, being realistic and trying not to disappoint you, S4S, meets code etc..... costs just a few cents more than rough cut (dependant upon local may or may not be used for structural building).

I am sure neither sawyer stickers and stacks the lumber for the customer, but most likely one has sawn alot more lumber and has had more complaints from past customers, albeight as no result of there sawing but improper storage by the client.

Just another view.


I have my own mill, and unless its going to be a by product of what I am milling, it makes no sense for me to mill a 2x4 or 2x6, but if my customer want its thats what they get.

 

[GeeVee]

Yea, but so much of that is crap. You have to dig through an entire bunk of 2 by's to find a dozen decent sticks. Too much is of it looks like it was grown in a greenhouse, 24/7. Look at the rings. Jeez, you even run across live-edged heartwood. Looks like it was sawn from 6 or 8" logs.

If I had pine available, I'd mill all my dimensional construction lumber from it and pay to have it kiln dried. At least I'd feel comfortable with the finished product.

Good looking setup. Repped you on the LT40.

I'm not worthy, thats not my LT 40.

But the Tacheuchi and ASV, trees, land, and peeps are 3000 bf of Red and white and Hickory in a leisurely 16 hours for 50 bucks an hour. The interior of the WoodSmoke Lounge is where 2200 bf went over the next five years. Air Dried under it for 2 years before I could work it, due to a shoulder surgery to reconstrcut the next day...

I dried it in, finished the Lounge for $18 bucks a square foot, Bought metal Roofing, Studs, Rafters, Floor joists, and Hardie Panel, Pilings were left overs from a Seawall. 18 x 30 under roof. By myself.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I say they are BOTH right! BUT, with #2 you have to pick through his BS and his poor people skills! lol

The truth is,

you CAN build with pine lumber right off the mill and let it dry in place...

The lumber WILL shrink some in drying, is that a big deal to you?

Pine is easy to air dry, but if not stickered properly, some of it probably will warp a bit.

Personally, i'd hire #1 and go build my bld... OR i'd "properly" sticker the lumber for later use...

SR