Take over tree service?

[unclemoustache]

A local tree service is wanting to retire someday, and has asked if I will take over the business. It's an established business with a good name in the area.

My own tree background: Self-trained through books and videos. I've removed dozens of trees in my own home-improvement business, sometimes climbing them and chunking them out. Occasionally renting lifts and stump-grinders. This tree service doesn't have a climber, and has hired me a few times to climb. I'm currently a remodeling contractor, but the money is not quite what I would like.

So my wife and I are really struggling on what to do. I don't believe this tree service is certified, so my first question is about what it takes to get certified. I understand that one path requires 3 years of work under a certified arborist, but that's not an option here. Are there other paths to certification?

Insurance is stinking expensive, but I'm not sure how he is even insured without some kind of certification. I would think an insurance co would require that for a tree service co.

I'm not sure how he deals with his workers. I don't believe they are full-time, and I don't think they are under-the-table either. Probably part-time employees, and he sometimes has difficulty getting enough workers to help on jobs.

Equipment. He has a new 80' lift and a new dump trailer, but much of his other equipment is pretty low quality. He's got a working Bobcat, but his chip truck (an old farm dump truck) is a nightmare. I would think I'd need to change over equipment pretty heavily in the short term.

He said there's not much work to do - just supervise the crew, but I'd rather be working. I think I could run the business a bit better. It seems like there is a lot of spinning of wheels here, and the phrase his workers here the most is "grab a rake" because there's nothing else to do while someone else finishes their part of the job. Hmmm.

Anyway, what is your advice? I really like doing tree work, but I don't know if I should do this. What questions should I be asking here?

Thanks.

 

[chipper1]

Lot's of questions, the first would be, where are your books .

 

[DR. P. Proteus]

I think you should just keep doing what you do and put this idea right out of yer head.

 

[no tree to big]

If a tree service can't keep workers fulltime atleast spring summer and fall that company isn't doing very well.. I'd really want to see books. What kind of chipper does he have? Grapple truck? Bucket truck or just the lift? Stumpers? Not sure about what kind of workforce is in your neck of the woods but could you get a mini army together for cheep or do you have to pony up for quality and experience? With only a chipper and dump trailer you need cheap labor and a lot of it. You do have that bob cat but you can't just go tearing up lawns unless you are the good Dr. Haha

Does this deal come with property with a shop and yard storage? What's chip and log disposal like in the area? How much does he want for the biz? Do people call him for work or does he have to go out and sell? Has emerald ash borer made it to your area yet? Do you have a lot of ash in the area?
I believe We have had eab for about 10 years now we are running out of ash trees and people who spent thousands to have those ash removed arnt spending money to maintain the rest of there trees and we are experiencing an area wide decline

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[*TreeFeller*]

I don't think ISA certification is a requirement for insurance. A legitimate company will be fully insured but doesn't necessarily need ISA certified arborists.

As the folks before me have mentioned, get ahold of the books. It can be tricky coming up with a fair price to buy a company outright. Figuring out fixed assets is easy but how do you put a price on reputation, client lists, and company name? It's also tough to get a loan for anything besides fixed assets. Do you think the company will be worth as much without the current owner around? Customers may choose his company because the know him, but with a new owner they may take their business elsewhere. This is especially important if there are a lot of repeat customers.

Another option is to come up with a transition plan that takes place over the course of a couple years. This has the benefit of being more gradual for both the company and its customers. Just my 2 cents

 

[Jed1124]

All good suggestions. Keep in mind, if your going to do EVERYTHING on the up and up, which I think you would do, after insurance (liability & comp), taxes, vehicle and equipment repairs, upgrading equipment, ect, you can expect to put 10-15% in your pocket. 20% if your good and lucky.
When your competitors aren't paying comp, under cutting you with jobs off the books, and paying their employees with the cash from those off the books jobs, it can get pretty discouraging.

 

[unclemoustache]

I think he's got the idea of a gradual turnover. I think he has 1 full-time employee who does most of the bucket work. The rest are part-time groundies, and they seem to come and go.

Yes, it's something of a slip-shod business- broken down equipment and all, (except for a new bucket truck and trailer) but I would be able to clean it up over time and build the reputation even better.

There are a few competitors around. Nelson does mostly commercial work for line clearing and such. Meurer is the top dog - best quality, best work, and highest price. A few other small fish.

 

[ropensaddle]

Your market is better than mine; if I had known what I know now I would of got into something less dangerous and better paying like crab fishin
That said; I never will have to ask myself what if! If you do this; just remember, it's daylight to dark, every problem is your problem and money leaves faster than it comes.

 

[hanniedog]

Stache I would think about the injury potential also. You have a wife and brood of kids that need you in one piece.

 

[unclemoustache]

Yes, I always think about that when doing tree work. And as always, I wouldn't be afraid to tell a customer that I can't handle that tree - call Meurers.

 

[Jeffsaw]

I would stay with the home improvement business and keep doing tree work on the side. You'd have two "irons in the fire" that way.
Maybe you could slowly acquire more tree service equipment as you can afford it and eventually get into it full time? Renting or leasing may be an option too.
Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[chipper1]

Just do it Josh, you know you want too .

 

[Zale]

I wouldn't do it. Too many headaches and not enough reward.

 

[lone wolf]

A local tree service is wanting to retire someday, and has asked if I will take over the business. It's an established business with a good name in the area.

My own tree background: Self-trained through books and videos. I've removed dozens of trees in my own home-improvement business, sometimes climbing them and chunking them out. Occasionally renting lifts and stump-grinders. This tree service doesn't have a climber, and has hired me a few times to climb. I'm currently a remodeling contractor, but the money is not quite what I would like.

So my wife and I are really struggling on what to do. I don't believe this tree service is certified, so my first question is about what it takes to get certified. I understand that one path requires 3 years of work under a certified arborist, but that's not an option here. Are there other paths to certification?

Insurance is stinking expensive, but I'm not sure how he is even insured without some kind of certification. I would think an insurance co would require that for a tree service co.

I'm not sure how he deals with his workers. I don't believe they are full-time, and I don't think they are under-the-table either. Probably part-time employees, and he sometimes has difficulty getting enough workers to help on jobs.

Equipment. He has a new 80' lift and a new dump trailer, but much of his other equipment is pretty low quality. He's got a working Bobcat, but his chip truck (an old farm dump truck) is a nightmare. I would think I'd need to change over equipment pretty heavily in the short term.

He said there's not much work to do - just supervise the crew, but I'd rather be working. I think I could run the business a bit better. It seems like there is a lot of spinning of wheels here, and the phrase his workers here the most is "grab a rake" because there's nothing else to do while someone else finishes their part of the job. Hmmm.

Anyway, what is your advice? I really like doing tree work, but I don't know if I should do this. What questions should I be asking here?

Thanks.

His asking price is? And detailed description of all the equipment you would get? You can always buy a truck and chipper and grinder and make a website your self. .

 

[unclemoustache]

I would stay with the home improvement business and keep doing tree work on the side. You'd have two "irons in the fire" that way.
Maybe you could slowly acquire more tree service equipment as you can afford it and eventually get into it full time? Renting or leasing may be an option too.
Good luck, whatever you decide.

Not a bad idea, except for the insurance part. I'm not really insured for trees. If I ever have a tree incident that requires insurance, my company will pay and drop me, and I'll have trouble getting insurance again.
I think it's best that I stick with what I'm doing. I'm established, got all my tools, and enjoy working on my own. Getting too old to change careers again.

 

[chipper1]

Not a bad idea, except for the insurance part. I'm not really insured for trees. If I ever have a tree incident that requires insurance, my company will pay and drop me, and I'll have trouble getting insurance again.
I think it's best that I stick with what I'm doing. I'm established, got all my tools, and enjoy working on my own. Getting too old to change careers again.

Josh just get the proper insurance, here in Michigan one, single day job will pay for the insurance.