Tell me what is wrong with this Red Oak

[steved]

Alright, I have a giant Red Oak that is on the property line. Its probably five feet across the butt, probably 10 feet before it branches, a picture-perfect tree. Picture of it I dug up from about four years ago:



I noticed a couple weeks ago its dropping branches, just the last 12-inches or so with a gob of leaves. Didn't think much of it, until I was reading that thread on Oak Wilt. Now I'm wondering. While I can see some caterpillar damage (probably Gypsy Moth), the leaves seem to be curling. Its lost some bigger branches that were obviously die back probably normal for lower branches, but this is the first year I remember it dropping these gobs of leaves and branches. There is probably ten to twenty of these gobs of branches on the ground between mowings. As you can see, four years ago this one was also being attacked by poison ivy and virginia creeper, but I have since remedied that.

I don't really have the ability to get pictures, the branches are too high and I just mowed the grass (ground up the smaller branches). Sound normal, bad, old age, tree is dying??

I already lost one huge Red Oak about 150 feet up from this one, it wasn't nearly as big or healthy as this one, broke off during one of our huricanes (center was punky). I always assumed it was killed by poison ivy, as it had a poison ivy vine approaching six inches in diameter running up it when I moved here (cut it off). Now I'm wondering if it was poison ivy. Picture of that tree from four years ago:




Thoughts?

 

[Iska3]

You might want to read up about Differences Between Oak Decline and Oak Wilt on the link below. This would be a good place to start. I see this all the time and people think their tree is ok because it's been like that for years. What they do not realize is the tree rots from the center out like you wrote.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/fidls/oakdecline/oakdecline.htm

 

[CTYank]

Poison Ivy neither attacks nor kills trees. It just climbs them.

 

[old_soul]

Poison Ivy neither attacks nor kills trees. It just climbs them.

I agree

also looks like a white oak tree not red oak

 

[muddstopper]

You mentioned you took care of the poison ivy that was growing in the tree. Just how did you take care of the IVY. Did you use a brush killer or just saw it off at the ground. A weed killer residue might be having some effect on the tree if weed killer was used. roots spread a long way from the base of the tree and using weed killers on weeds and brush close to the tree can also have an effect on the health of the tree.

If your desire is to save the tree, I would suggest replacing the forest floor around the tree as a first step. Trees are not meant to be grown out in a pasture and mowed around. As trees die, they return nutrients back to the soil. Leaves, twiggs, other trees all provide nutrients for the trees growing there. I have a red oak in my front yard that was severly damaged back in 1974. The tree, maybe 10in in dia back then, was used to attach a winch cable to pull a small dozer up a hill where it could be worked on. The cable wrapped around the tree basicly girdled the tree, ripping off the bark. I was the one that wrapped the cable around the tree in the first place. In 1984, a house was built in front of that tree and the tree was left to provide shade. I moved into the house in 1999. When I moved into the house, the tree was in serious decline, hollow at the bottom, full of black ants, limbs had moss and fungi growing on them. I didnt want to cut the tree because it was about the only shade around the house. I made a large dia circle border around the tree using rocks and filled the border with groundup hardwood bark mulch and replenish each year. Today, the cut in the tree has healed over, cant even see the hollow spot at the base. The tree has increased in size, nearly 3ft in dia now, the limbs have stopped dropping out and the tree seems to be thriving. There are still a few dead limbs in the top of the tree that will probably one day fall out on my truck, but for the most part, subsituting the bark mulch for the forest floor has kept this tree alive for a extra 15 years and I dont see cutting it down any time soon.

 

[unclemoustache]

Well, ONE thing that's wrong with that tree is that it's not lying dead in my wood lot.....

 

[esshup]

The pest is called a 'twig girdler'.

http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/fallen_oak_shoots_may_be_work_of_the_twig_pruner

 

[066blaster]

I have never seen poison ivy turn into a vine. Just short plants. The tree might just have past it's peak. I have seen many times carpenter ants damage a huge oak tree enough to kill it. They get into it from a broken limb.

 

[stumpy75]

I have never seen poison ivy turn into a vine. Just short plants..

It definitely does grow into big vines. Look for the really hairy ones in the woods. That's PI. I've seen it as big as 3" in diameter, and I know it gets bigger than that.

Many things could be the matter with that oak. Maybe contact your local soil and water people, and the state DNR.

 

[066blaster]

It definitely does grow into big vines. Look for the really hairy ones in the woods. That's PI. I've seen it as big as 3" in diameter, and I know it gets bigger than that.

Many things could be the matter with that oak. Maybe contact your local soil and water people, and the state DNR.

Not in wi. That I have everseen. We get real big grape vines . 3 inch diameter I used to swing on them when I was a kid.

 

[sunfish]

I agree

also looks like a white oak tree not red oak

Looks like a white oak to me also.

 

[woodchuck357]

I have never seen poison ivy turn into a vine. Just short plants. The tree might just have past it's peak. I have seen many times carpenter ants damage a huge oak tree enough to kill it. They get into it from a broken limb.

http://www4.uwsp.edu/biology/courses/plantid/cp-dicot-b/cp-dicot-b-093poisonivy.htm
http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view/picqna.html?func=viewQNA&did=1109&wid=486

 

[066blaster]

http://www4.uwsp.edu/biology/courses/plantid/cp-dicot-b/cp-dicot-b-093poisonivy.htm
http://poisonivy.aesir.com/view/picqna.html?func=viewQNA&did=1109&wid=486

It says it can vine. Never seen one though. Just little plants . Or maybe I need to look closer at those thick grape vines.??

 

[sunfish]

Still doesn't look like a Red Oak...

 

[066blaster]

If your seeing lots of theese. It's probably a squirrel making a nest. I found a bout 20 of theese in my yard and noticed a huge squirrel nest in one of my oaks. They were still green when I first noticed them as well as the nest. They must drop a few in the process. You can tell they are chewed off.

 

[zogger]

It says it can vine. Never seen one though. Just little plants . Or maybe I need to look closer at those thick grape vines.??

I was once out morel hunting, and needed to cross a deepish creek. Luckily there was a fallen log, plenty big enough to walk over easy, like..memory..ten inches to a foot diameter. The log kept going and going then branched and ran up trees! It was the prehistoric mambo momma of all perzin ivory vines!

Anyway, real easy to spot even in the winter when just normal few inch thick sized, real hairy looking as they climb up the trunks. They sprout zillions of filaments, thickish, that cling to the tree. Best time to kill them then, too, cut a section out from the ground to up over waist height. Wait some months, it will be dried enough the filaments let loose easy and you can drag the vines out of the tree then. Much easier and safer to fell the tree and cut them up once the vines are out. ripping them out green doesn't work too well, nor does bucking up the tree covered in them. The vines are quite distinctive and don't look like other vines.

 

[steved]

I have never seen poison ivy turn into a vine. Just short plants. The tree might just have past it's peak. I have seen many times carpenter ants damage a huge oak tree enough to kill it. They get into it from a broken limb.

That's poison oak, not poison ivy.

Poison ivy will kill the host tree because it essentially outcompetes the tree for sunlight. If you have ever seen a tree with poison ivy to the top, you would note the tree is either dying or dead. I see it all the time around here.

 

[steved]

You mentioned you took care of the poison ivy that was growing in the tree. Just how did you take care of the IVY. Did you use a brush killer or just saw it off at the ground. A weed killer residue might be having some effect on the tree if weed killer was used. roots spread a long way from the base of the tree and using weed killers on weeds and brush close to the tree can also have an effect on the health of the tree.

If your desire is to save the tree, I would suggest replacing the forest floor around the tree as a first step. Trees are not meant to be grown out in a pasture and mowed around. As trees die, they return nutrients back to the soil. Leaves, twiggs, other trees all provide nutrients for the trees growing there. I have a red oak in my front yard that was severly damaged back in 1974. The tree, maybe 10in in dia back then, was used to attach a winch cable to pull a small dozer up a hill where it could be worked on. The cable wrapped around the tree basicly girdled the tree, ripping off the bark. I was the one that wrapped the cable around the tree in the first place. In 1984, a house was built in front of that tree and the tree was left to provide shade. I moved into the house in 1999. When I moved into the house, the tree was in serious decline, hollow at the bottom, full of black ants, limbs had moss and fungi growing on them. I didnt want to cut the tree because it was about the only shade around the house. I made a large dia circle border around the tree using rocks and filled the border with groundup hardwood bark mulch and replenish each year. Today, the cut in the tree has healed over, cant even see the hollow spot at the base. The tree has increased in size, nearly 3ft in dia now, the limbs have stopped dropping out and the tree seems to be thriving. There are still a few dead limbs in the top of the tree that will probably one day fall out on my truck, but for the most part, subsituting the bark mulch for the forest floor has kept this tree alive for a extra 15 years and I dont see cutting it down any time soon.

Cut the vines off, tree the "stump" with Roundup. That's a standard method of killing poison ivy.

I don't have access to create a new forest...so that's out.

 

[steved]

Poison Ivy neither attacks nor kills trees. It just climbs them.

Red Oak.

Poison Ivy will kill its host tree.

 

[ppkgmsy]

You might want to read up about Differences Between Oak Decline and Oak Wilt on the link below. This would be a good place to start. I see this all the time and people think their tree is ok because it's been like that for years. What they do not realize is the tree rots from the center out like you wrote.

http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/fidls/oakdecline/oakdecline.htm

This is really helpful. I admit I didn't know the difference between decline and wilt. Thanks.