Thick bark and flip line

[Franklyhumble]

I recently purchased a tree climbing kit because I thought it would be fun and challenging. I underestimated it and how tough it was. I have a steel core Flipline and I find it very hard to climb a tree with really thick bark. When I get further up, the flip line wants to get stuck because it is catching bark on the back side of the tree. I've tried clubbing other trees we've the bark doesn't protrude as much and I do fine on those. The other trees are easy. I have a 5/8" flipline. I also keep sliding down when i try to stand straight up but i guess that's bc the spurs are not staying in the tree when I lean forward.

What can I do?

 

[js5409]

I don't post much, but I will make a few comments here involving safety and tree care (my opinion).
You don't say in your post so I'll comment that I hope you have a climbing limb attached when you are spiking up a tree. It will save you if a gaff comes out like you said it has. I have that same flipline and it is very nice. For trees with thick bark, you need to use your climbing line to assist you with the flipline. Hard to explain in type, but with climbing line and spikes holding you, make sure you have enough slack in flipline at waist level and using two hands (one on each side) pull the flipline out from the tree and fling it up. Lean back immediately so the flipline holds and spike up. You can then tighten your climbing line and flipline if needed or continue up. When the climbing line (and spikes) are holding your weight it allows you to create space with the flipline to throw it up and you need that space in rough bark trees moreso than smooth trees.
Regarding tree care, I hope you are only using spikes in trees you are removing because it does damage trees. If you are just learning to climb, take them off. You will be a much better climber if you learn without them. I climbed for 3 years trimming and removals before I bought my first pair. Yes, they are nice for when doing removals, but they are not good to learn proper tree climbing skills. Safety first, take your time, and enjoy it. The more you do it the easier it will get, but don't rely on spikes and never forget the safety aspect.

 

[Franklyhumble]

I don't post much, but I will make a few comments here involving safety and tree care (my opinion).
You don't say in your post so I'll comment that I hope you have a climbing limb attached when you are spiking up a tree. It will save you if a gaff comes out like you said it has. I have that same flipline and it is very nice. For trees with thick bark, you need to use your climbing line to assist you with the flipline. Hard to explain in type, but with climbing line and spikes holding you, make sure you have enough slack in flipline at waist level and using two hands (one on each side) pull the flipline out from the tree and fling it up. Lean back immediately so the flipline holds and spike up. You can then tighten your climbing line and flipline if needed or continue up. When the climbing line (and spikes) are holding your weight it allows you to create space with the flipline to throw it up and you need that space in rough bark trees moreso than smooth trees.
Regarding tree care, I hope you are only using spikes in trees you are removing because it does damage trees. If you are just learning to climb, take them off. You will be a much better climber if you learn without them. I climbed for 3 years trimming and removals before I bought my first pair. Yes, they are nice for when doing removals, but they are not good to learn proper tree climbing skills. Safety first, take your time, and enjoy it. The more you do it the easier it will get, but don't rely on spikes and never forget the safety aspect.

Thank you greatly! I need to have a climbing line. I see how that can help. I was just messing around up to about 2-3' to see how I would do.

I'll practice without the spurs and see how that feels. I need to learn more about the whole aspect of knots and all that. Green as green can get but hope to learn quickly

 

[crammit442]

If you are just learning to climb, take them off. You will be a much better climber if you learn without them. I climbed for 3 years trimming and removals before I bought my first pair. Yes, they are nice for when doing removals, but they are not good to learn proper tree climbing skills. Safety first, take your time, and enjoy it. The more you do it the easier it will get, but don't rely on spikes and never forget the safety aspect.

I also appreciate this post. I've read this same advice several times. I've looked all over YouTube, but haven't found much on spurless climbing. I understand ascending, but are you aware of any instruction or videos of climbing with a flip line, but no spurs? Thanks in advance.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Guys climbed for 100 years with only a lanyard and spurs on thick barked trees. There are some videos of guys in the 20's climbing and topping large firs with an axe and handsaw for logging spars, so it can be done. There are vids on this site, I think in the WTF pic forum, but you would have to search for one.

Here's one

On bigger trees, you're better to whip one end of the lanyard up, then the other end, rather than trying to flip both ends at the same time.

One things I notice with guys starting out is standing too straight on their spurs. You need to have your butt away from the tree to get a better angle for your spurs to stick in. You need to bend at the waist and bring your upper body to the tree to flip the line and keep your butt out.

On a rough bark tree, don't worry about gaffing out. As long as you hang onto the lanyard, it will catch on the rough bark end up above your head and stop you. You'll probably eat a bit of bark, but wont be sliding down to the ground.

 

[Franklyhumble]

Guys climbed for 100 years with only a lanyard and spurs on thick barked trees. There are some videos of guys in the 20's climbing and topping large firs with an axe and handsaw for logging spars, so it can be done. There are vids on this site, I think in the WTF pic forum, but you would have to search for one.

Here's one

On bigger trees, you're better to whip one end of the lanyard up, then the other end, rather than trying to flip both ends at the same time.

One things I notice with guys starting out is standing too straight on their spurs. You need to have your butt away from the tree to get a better angle for your spurs to stick in. You need to bend at the waist and bring your upper body to the tree to flip the line and keep your butt out.

On a rough bark tree, don't worry about gaffing out. As long as you hang onto the lanyard, it will catch on the rough bark end up above your head and stop you. You'll probably eat a bit of bark, but wont be sliding down to the ground.

Hey! Yea I tries the whole butt out thing yesterday and it gives a better handle on the spurs but bending at waist doesn't do anything because my saddle is still at an angle. I tried flipping the line and dude I'd pull myself to the side so I can look around the backside of the tree to see Webster's stopping me from going up further but it's a pain in the rear bc both sides are moving up the tree but on the very backside, its catching the lowest part of the flip line. So damn irritating.

I even tried pulling it neck and forth against the bark as if it was like "rope burn or carpet burn" but that was a fail.

I did hit face first a little yesterday. I want happy about that.

 

[Task Titan]

Hey! Yea I tries the whole butt out thing yesterday and it gives a better handle on the spurs but bending at waist doesn't do anything because my saddle is still at an angle. I tried flipping the line and dude I'd pull myself to the side so I can look around the backside of the tree to see Webster's stopping me from going up further but it's a pain in the rear bc both sides are moving up the tree but on the very backside, its catching the lowest part of the flip line. So damn irritating.

I even tried pulling it neck and forth against the bark as if it was like "rope burn or carpet burn" but that was a fail.

I did hit face first a little yesterday. I want happy about that.

It does take practice most people don't realize how much work it takes to get up a tree. Pros make it look easy. Make sure when you start your flip line has enough slack to actually flip up over the rough stuff you can't see in the other side. Start with a smaller tree something you can reach around need be. Make sure your spikes are set so they don't slip out. When standing be sure you can lean away from the tree that will help keep your spikes set versus standing vertically with the tree. So you're leaning back into your saddle. Then lean forward and flip then lean back and repeat. Having a climbing line set is a good start if you can get it in a crotch. Don't try to do to much at one time. Like anything little steps before big ones. Watch a few videos them copy the movements

 

[Franklyhumble]

It does take practice most people don't realize how much work it takes to get up a tree. Pros make it look easy. Make sure when you start your flip line has enough slack to actually flip up over the rough stuff you can't see in the other side. Start with a smaller tree something you can reach around need be. Make sure your spikes are set so they don't slip out. When standing be sure you can lean away from the tree that will help keep your spikes set versus standing vertically with the tree. So you're leaning back into your saddle. Then lean forward and flip then lean back and repeat. Having a climbing line set is a good start if you can get it in a crotch. Don't try to do to much at one time. Like anything little steps before big ones. Watch a few videos them copy the movements

Yea I tried the getting my upper body close to the tree and then flipping the line but when I would get close to the tree, my spurs would come out and I ate shiz. Didn't feel good.

I'm confused how you can keep your spurs angled yet keep.your upper body close to the tree.

 

[Task Titan]

Yea I tried the getting my upper body close to the tree and then flipping the line but when I would get close to the tree, my spurs would come out and I ate shiz. Didn't feel good.

I'm confused how you can keep your spurs angled yet keep.your upper body close to the tree.

Well you don't want your body close to the tree at rest you want to be leaning back so there is like a ft between you and the tree or more just so it's comfortable then it's a whole body movement lean forward and flip if you can't flip it let out a little more slack. Sometimes if the tree is big you have to move one side the the other. Don't try and go up. Start just standing in the ground forget the spikes. Think of leaning against the wall then lean forward and flip it doesn't have to go up a foot go for a couple inches. It sounds like you're trying to do to much. Frustration will make it harder walk away if that happens come back later. Stay loose and care free you'll get it. Rock forward and flip if you're spikes are slipping out you're to close to the tree or you didn't stomp hard enough to set them. I always visually see it sounds dumb but any tree I do I look for the easiest way up if it means one way go up the opposite it's leaning. I picture how I'm going to move through the tree to be the most efficient. Don't give up.

 

[js5409]

I also appreciate this post. I've read this same advice several times. I've looked all over YouTube, but haven't found much on spurless climbing. I understand ascending, but are you aware of any instruction or videos of climbing with a flip line, but no spurs? Thanks in advance.

I learned 30 years ago and things have certainly changed for the better since then, but I still climb the way I learned with a few improvements. I only use DDRT and set my climbing line first (use a ladder plus pruner pole or now have throw lines). A foot ascender and HAAS Velox (I also have a Petzl zigzag) are great to move up a tree once your climbing line is set. I may have to get up to my climbing line crotch, attach my flipline, remove the climbing line, and use the pruner pole to set my climbing line up higher in the optimal position. I don't claim to be super fast, but I am safe. The only time I use the flipline is when I am repositioning my climbing line tie-in point or making an awkward position cut where the flipline will help support my position. I guess one other time is for removals that have to be blocked down. I'll have spikes and flipline for that and I still attach my climbing line at waist level and slide it down as I go. Using a flipline on a straight pole is fairly easy, but what happens in a tree when you reach the first set of branches? You have to unhook your flipline to get over them and, without a climbing line, you are taking a huge risk. I guess you could use double fliplines so you are always tied in, but that is not the way I learned. I like a climbing line above me and planning my route, limb walking, and getting the best position for the job.
I don't know of specific videos for climbing with a flipline, but you can go to youtube and search HAAS Velox or foot ascenders and you will find many of people demonstrating them or using them on a job. You can also search specific fliplines and see people climbing with them, but they are often used as an accessory to a climbing line. There are many different ways to climb and I do what works for me. Find what works for you and master it.