Those "little details" potential clients leave out.

[Sunrise Guy]

OK, I'm blowing off steam, here. Today I spent three hours walking a subdivision and getting data for a remediation report. Normally I charge $100/hr. to do so, unless I am dealing with a party whom, I am led to believe, has the ultimate authority to hire me for the work. Then I combine the report with a proposal to do the needed work. So, I walked the property, took my notes, drove home, typed up the report and then called my right-hand man to get the proper address of the woman with whom we spoke today. She gave it to him when he called her, tonight, BUT told him to put the name and address of a :censored:ing property management company on the report. SAY WHAT?

It is looking like this property management company, a mega-big one at that, will decide who does the work and, as they say on their web site, "We have a list of reliable vendors to serve all of your needs." Uh, EXCUSE ME? Lady, why did you tell me that your HOA, which you head, was going to vote on what they were going to do? Why did you make it sound like you were going to be the one to hire me, but now you are wanting me to send my report to your :censored:ing management company?

Man, this :censored:es me off!!! As long as I've been doing trees, you would think that I would remember to ask, right off the :censored:ing bat, who has the ultimate authority to hire the contractor for a given job. I am angry at myself and this woman.

There's no way she's getting the report until I know who is hiring whom for this gig. No way. If she tells me that the management company will be doing the hiring, then she can buy my report for the $300 I would have charged a third party, because there's little chance I'll get the gig.

I could :censored:!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

So now you write a letter. Company letterhead, very nice, polite, professional language. You apologize for misunderstanding the situation, and apologize for the inconvenience, but explain that you had expected this to be an estimate preparatory to being hired. Since it now appears your report will be used to prepare a Request For Quote, and that other companies will bid on the work, you must be compensated for your time in preparing the professional assessment, and here's your invoice.

All very flowery, very polite and professional.

Then you don't give her anything unless she coughs up. She either gives you a check, or gives you sufficient reason to believe you'll get the work. I'd be very careful on that last bit. Get something in writing.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

So now you write a letter. Company letterhead, very nice, polite, professional language. You apologize for misunderstanding the situation, and apologize for the inconvenience, but explain that you had expected this to be an estimate preparatory to being hired. Since it now appears your report will be used to prepare a Request For Quote, and that other companies will bid on the work, you must be compensated for your time in preparing the professional assessment, and here's your invoice.

All very flowery, very polite and professional.

Then you don't give her anything unless she coughs up. She either gives you a check, or gives you sufficient reason to believe you'll get the work. I'd be very careful on that last bit. Get something in writing.

Yeah, good advice. I am in total agreement. I have actually started preparing the letter, as above. In truth, I have myself to blame, here, for not getting clarity during my visit, today. I let down my guard, and this happens. Live and learn------sometimes. Thanks.

 

[RVALUE]

Here's a worse way to handle it:


...tree 1...................piece of cake....

...tree 2...................piece of cake....

...tree 3...................piece of cake....

...tree 4...................piece of cake.....


Only you know... you get what you pay for!

 

[treeseer]

Yeah knowing who the client is; Job #1.

Either you are giving a paid consult, or a free estimate. Clients wantfree consultations, of course.

But I've been in your shoes, and wiped the dogspit off of them too.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Yeah knowing who the client is; Job #1.

Either you are giving a paid consult, or a free estimate. Clients wantfree consultations, of course.

But I've been in your shoes, and wiped the dogspit off of them too.

Yep, so darn true. I wrote a very nice letter that has the fee for my services. It's polite, to a fault. I'm holding it, for now, along with my report. We'll see where this goes. My first e-mail has asked her who is ultimately hiring me. Once I get her reply to that, I'll have a better picture of the situation.

 

[cowtipper]

OK, I'm blowing off steam, here. Today I spent three hours walking a subdivision and getting data for a remediation report. Normally I charge $100/hr. to do so, unless I am dealing with a party whom, I am led to believe, has the ultimate authority to hire me for the work. Then I combine the report with a proposal to do the needed work. So, I walked the property, took my notes, drove home, typed up the report and then called my right-hand man to get the proper address of the woman with whom we spoke today. She gave it to him when he called her, tonight, BUT told him to put the name and address of a :censored:ing property management company on the report. SAY WHAT?

It is looking like this property management company, a mega-big one at that, will decide who does the work and, as they say on their web site, "We have a list of reliable vendors to serve all of your needs." Uh, EXCUSE ME? Lady, why did you tell me that your HOA, which you head, was going to vote on what they were going to do? Why did you make it sound like you were going to be the one to hire me, but now you are wanting me to send my report to your :censored:ing management company?

Man, this :censored:es me off!!! As long as I've been doing trees, you would think that I would remember to ask, right off the :censored:ing bat, who has the ultimate authority to hire the contractor for a given job. I am angry at myself and this woman.

There's no way she's getting the report until I know who is hiring whom for this gig. No way. If she tells me that the management company will be doing the hiring, then she can buy my report for the $300 I would have charged a third party, because there's little chance I'll get the gig.

I could :censored:!

ah... let me start of by saying I'm just a home owner and not in the tree Biz, and not trying to start a flame war...

Ok as I understand it you were asked to "look" at a job. When the time came to submit your "quote" you found out the person you talked to can not sign the contact, after you spent you quality time looking the job over. So since she can not sign the contract you feel they should pay you $300 for your "quote". On top of that you said you know better and should have asked up front. If that is so I would take that as a lesson learned and still submit the "quote". And then talk to you right hand man and make sure this kind of thing does not happen again.

Also am I reading this correctly that is not such a thing as a free "quote" for anyone other then a home owner?

Why not summit the "quote".. no never know they could give you the contract. How many other company's do you think will give a them a free "quote". The management company all way need something in writing.

Again not trying to start a flame war or anything... just tossing out my Internet $.02.

 

[BC WetCoast]

We deal with this situation fairly regularily, also I have a very good friend who is a property manager. The property management company works for the strata council (HOA) and if the strata council says use ABC company, then the property manager will hire ABC. Often, however, the strata council doesn't know who to hire to do certain kinds of work (or wants the work put out to bid). In this case, they will instruct the property manager to either hire someone to do the work (if it is small) or solicit bids for the strata council decision.

We will get approval from the strata council directly to do the work and are then told to submit our bill to the property management company because it is their responsibility to pay the bills.

So, I don't think your situation is entirely out of line, but you should clarify the reporting structure.

 

[newsawtooth]

To the above poster, a simple estimate for removal or trimming is one thing. Sunrise is talking about a plan for plant and tree health for a large area which requires a level of experience and understanding that should be compensated. The Management Company understood that and likely made it appear this consultation was for the HOA and not the whole company.

Sorry to hear about that Sunrise. I am getting more calls for free consultation lately as well. A free estimate is one thing, but if they want me to tell them what is wrong with their trees and develop a plan so they can get bids on the work I recommended, that is another.

 

[cowtipper]

We deal with this situation fairly regularily, also I have a very good friend who is a property manager. The property management company works for the strata council (HOA) and if the strata council says use ABC company, then the property manager will hire ABC. Often, however, the strata council doesn't know who to hire to do certain kinds of work (or wants the work put out to bid). In this case, they will instruct the property manager to either hire someone to do the work (if it is small) or solicit bids for the strata council decision.

We will get approval from the strata council directly to do the work and are then told to submit our bill to the property management company because it is their responsibility to pay the bills.

So, I don't think your situation is entirely out of line, but you should clarify the reporting structure.

Thanks BC WetCoast... that's what I would have thought should/would happen

 

[cowtipper]

To the above poster, a simple estimate for removal or trimming is one thing. Sunrise is talking about a plan for plant and tree health for a large area which requires a level of experience and understanding that should be compensated. The Management Company understood that and likely made it appear this consultation was for the HOA and not the whole company.

Sorry to hear about that Sunrise. I am getting more calls for free consultation lately as well. A free estimate is one thing, but if they want me to tell them what is wrong with their trees and develop a plan so they can get bids on the work I recommended, that is another.

I see now said the blind man.. Thanks newsawtooth

 

[Sunrise Guy]

How this ended up---

I sent her the nice, polite e-mail letting her know that the report would be $300 as a stand-alone or it would be a no-charge if she was ready to sign my proposal for $5000. She just wrote back that the HOA has decided to, once again, let the landscapers handle the tree work. Her stupidity defies explanation. She was the one complaining how the landscapers had ignored the trees over the years. Before that, it was obvious they had butchered them. (ya gotta love Weeping Bradford Pears!!!) What probably happened today was that she called the management company to let them know that I was not the sucker she played me for as in, "He's not giving us that free report which would detail what the landscapers need to do with our trees. Oh darn!" Then the management company probably assured her that they would be sure to have some crew members on their landscaping team that know all about trees. Oh yeah, I'll just bet they do. We all know what great arborists work for landscaping companies.

Anyway---Thanks for your support, guys. I am so glad that I did not send her my report. I would be fit to be tied, right now, if I had.

 

[newsawtooth]

Sorry you lost the work, glad that you didn't give them a plan for free though. I made the mistake of giving a friend of the family a plan for some work that needed to be done for their HOA. Found out later they used it to find someone to do it cheaper. I was just trying to help and lost a $10,000 job. Lesson learned, I gave them too much information.

 

[teamtree]

I am not sure I understand.....

you go out to give an estimate but after you figure it up you figured out you would be sending it to a PM company instead of the HOA....

Now you want to charge a "consulting fee" for the estimate work or proposal...

If you are a consultant, you are just that.....you are paid to come out and tell them what to do and then the work is spec'd out to contractors....and they are aware of the fee before you come out.

I can't say that I haven't heard of this happening or even happening to myself....but it is more about you clearly identifying what you are doing for them from the get go. You were not hired as a consultant you were merely asked to give a quote on a project with limited specs or no specs. I have bid tons of jobs in which my bid (proposal or estimate) included additional work over the other companies. I wish I could have charged them for the estimate. I have only charged for estimates in a few cases in which I was going to be out a significant amount of time and/or expenses.

But I may be off base with the limited amount of info, but it sounds like you went on a wild goose chase and got snookered. We all have done it and it sucks but just keep plugging along....and good things will happen.

I fish for information all the time....with saw companies, insurance companies, tire companies, mechanics and get all sorts of free information.....and when i decide to buy the guy who gets my business as sold me on what they can do for me...

Maybe your approach should be...give them the proposal and spell out why an arborist is better than a landscaper at taking care of trees.....up sell your service by providing a good proposal...

 

[Slvrmple72]

Was she cute? Is that what got you slipped up? Glad to hear she didn't get the better of you in the end! Gotta watch those cunning vixens!

 

[fishercat]

these HOAs and PM companies pull this crap all the time.

they are cheaper than cheap.usually because they mismanage the money in the first place.i don't even bother with them any more.not worth the effort involved.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

I am not sure I understand.....

you go out to give an estimate but after you figure it up you figured out you would be sending it to a PM company instead of the HOA....

Now you want to charge a "consulting fee" for the estimate work or proposal...

If you are a consultant, you are just that.....you are paid to come out and tell them what to do and then the work is spec'd out to contractors....and they are aware of the fee before you come out.

I can't say that I haven't heard of this happening or even happening to myself....but it is more about you clearly identifying what you are doing for them from the get go. You were not hired as a consultant you were merely asked to give a quote on a project with limited specs or no specs. I have bid tons of jobs in which my bid (proposal or estimate) included additional work over the other companies. I wish I could have charged them for the estimate. I have only charged for estimates in a few cases in which I was going to be out a significant amount of time and/or expenses.

But I may be off base with the limited amount of info, but it sounds like you went on a wild goose chase and got snookered. We all have done it and it sucks but just keep plugging along....and good things will happen.

I fish for information all the time....with saw companies, insurance companies, tire companies, mechanics and get all sorts of free information.....and when i decide to buy the guy who gets my business as sold me on what they can do for me...

Maybe your approach should be...give them the proposal and spell out why an arborist is better than a landscaper at taking care of trees.....up sell your service by providing a good proposal...

I went out to look at a job I was led to believe my company had already
been chosen to do, by the HOA pres. The pres of that group requested that I provide her with a detailed report so the HOA could "release the funds." I had no problem with supplying the report, gratis, since I thought the $5000 gig was in the bag. Then, right before I sent the report, that pres woman told me to put a PM company's name on the report as the recipient. When I questioned what role the previously unmentioned PM company had in this, I was told that they supply the workers for jobs the HOA has. It became clear that the HOA pres was trying to pick my brain so the PM company could direct their workers using my knowledge and expertise. When I pressed the matter, it suddenly turned out that the HOA was going to include the tree work in their landscaping work budget. That was laughably goofy, since this whole thing had its genesis in the HOA's dissatisfaction with the landscapers who never worked on the trees, or butchered them in years gone by. It was a comedy and a big waste of my time. They did not get my report which I told them would now cost $300 for three hours of my time.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

they are cheaper than cheap.usually because they mismanage the money in the first place.i don't even bother with them any more.not worth the effort involved.

Yeah, I'm moving to your side of the fence, on this.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

Was she cute? Is that what got you slipped up? Glad to hear she didn't get the better of you in the end! Gotta watch those cunning vixens!

Try 75, and an old, shriveled-up prune-face.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Gotta watch those cunning vixens!

Being an HOA rep she probably was a cougar at best, probably gimpy and long-in-the-tooth.