Timber Fallers (Cottonwood)

[cottonwood1]

Hello all,
I was wondering if any fallers out there do Cottonwood cutting? I am doing a large falling project for the Forest service cutting timber for the oil workers to use. I use a 044 30" and a 394 33" both modded. It has been a bit more of a test than i thought. The wood closes so fast and tries to stop your saw the whole time. Also tries to split or rip before you can finish your cut. Wondering what you are running for saws and if I am the only one that has seen this when cutting this wood? I am only speaking about the larger trees, 3-4ft and bigger. Thanks to all!!

 

[Metals406]

Hello all,
I was wondering if any fallers out there do Cottonwood cutting? I am doing a large falling project for the Forest service cutting timber for the oil workers to use. I use a 044 30" and a 394 33" both modded. It has been a bit more of a test than i thought. The wood closes so fast and tries to stop your saw the whole time. Also tries to split or rip before you can finish your cut. Wondering what you are running for saws and if I am the only one that has seen this when cutting this wood? I am only speaking about the larger trees, 3-4ft and bigger. Thanks to all!!

Tarzantree and Cedarkerf have cut **** loads of Cottonwood.

I've cut a fair piece myself. . . Sounds like what you're experiencing is just the nature of the beast.

My advice, backup the tree with a couple wedges to help keep the back-cut open. . . Although, it may take more than a couple -- Cottonwood can compress your wedges like they're not even in there.

You might try PMing one of those two, and picking their brain.

What do the oil guys need with Cottonwood anyway?? I know it's good trailer decking, and fer making pallets.

 

[cottonwood1]

They are using it for rig mats and yes trailer beds mainly. I have been seeing the wedges just get absorbed. Seems like stacking them and using the larger ones is the only route that works. That and the saw has to be fast as possible to get the cut done before it has time to swell. Nothing like pine thats for sure. The smallers ones are easy and no issue.

 

[Metals406]

They are using it for rig mats and yes trailer beds mainly. I have been seeing the wedges just get absorbed. Seems like stacking them and using the larger ones is the only route that works. That and the saw has to be fast as possible to get the cut done before it has time to swell. Nothing like pine thats for sure. The smallers ones are easy and no issue.

Yup, sounds like Cottonwood. . . Cedarkerf was telling us that he had cut up a big one, and left a big post in the back. The tree sat down and pushed the post into the stump.

Not sure if it would work for every tree, but you might cut a deeper face, to undermine the trees gravity, and help it want to go over as you're sawing it up?

The problem is point-loading -- the fibers just can't take it. Spreading the load out would be the only answer, fer wedges anyway.

You could buy some bull line and a Big Shot to tie a line in all the big ones, and pull them over.

You should take some pictures or make a video. . . We like that here.

 

[paccity]

like metals said they are a fibery pos. they are worse in the spring and summer when they are pulling lotts of water. many wedges and work a wide curf. and they smell like horse pizz.

 

[stikine]

If you are not already doing so, try some full skip, square chisel, .404 chain on the big bar. It will cut a wider kerf and clear the chips a bit better.

 

[mdavlee]

If you can find some of the oregon durapro or CJX square ground it's a .404" sized cutter on a 3/8" chassis.

 

[Gologit]

One thing that helps on super soft wood is wide-kerfing your back cut. That helps give you a little wiggle room.
If you can lay three wedges side by side, or even side wedge, it gives you some extra room. I've also seen guys stick a long piece, longer than the diameter of the tree, of 1x6 parallel with the back cut into the kerf.

The guys talking about fast chain or 404 chain are right, too.

 

[Joe46]

I never cut an abundance of Cottonwood, but what I did cut was done with a 2100 Husky, 36" bar running full skip chisel .404 Carleton chain. That was a couple of centuries ago

 

[Gologit]

I never cut an abundance of Cottonwood, but what I did cut was done with a 2100 Husky, 36" bar running full skip chisel .404 Carleton chain. That was a couple of centuries ago

I never cut much of it either...not when I could get out of it. That stuff is just plain nasty. You go home at night smelling like you've been peed on all day.

 

[bigalalexander]

cottonwood

I never cut an abundance of Cottonwood, but what I did cut was done with a 2100 Husky, 36" bar running full skip chisel .404 Carleton chain. That was a couple of centuries ago

The .404 will help for sure. Good deep face . dont try to fight the lay of the tree to to much . take about three double taper wedges smooth side by side . set your wedges early and bore back in to widen your kerf out . you can use 3/8 chain fine to .

 

[arborealbuffoon]

I have never heard of the FS having timber sales involving cottonwoods. Learn something every day, I guess.

 

[ShadeTreeWelder]

Cottonwood sucks, only worse tree is willow. Both soft and full of water.
I really do not have much to add other than I hate cutting them. I think
80% of the trees here are cotton wood. I have lost a 36" bar to one of
them that decided to sit on my back cut.

 

[tramp bushler]

Since Oregon stopped making DuraPro chain 404 is all you can get. Which isn't a bad thing. . It works fine on any saw 50 cc and up. been there done that Lots. Regular kerf 3/8 is the problem. It just doesn't cut a wide enough kerf for the bar to move around freely in. 7 tooth. full comp or full skip. Oregon #68 series.

 

[tramp bushler]

the 59 series 404 would be good in cottonwood also.

 

[cottonwood1]

I have been running 404 on the 394xp with a 33inch bar, not skip so that will be next. Does seem to do the best out of the options. I did laugh when one of you said it sticks, that is VERY true. When the day is done you are wet from the water and smell a little funkie. In an odd way it is fun to cut it because you learn a lot from tough wood. On the production side it sucks because every tree is fighting you.

What had happenned is we had a huge flood here and the trees got damage causing dangerous situations so the FS had to make a decision on how to deal with the wood that is still good, but leaning or had roots loosen. So they worked with the Oil and found out that they could use the wood for its absorbing ability, and trailer beds. I quess it will be all replanted with new and better timber and still use the Cottonwood for something now. Its a very odd situation because they dont normally do that. not sure if it is a grant they did or what. I dont care really beings I am getting to cut and get paid. LOL!!:msp_smile:

Yesterday on a private cutting job i took one that was a few inches short of 5ft across down. Biggest one for me to date. Sure made the ground rock when it hit. I will try to take some pictures when I can to show anyone that wants to see the cutting.

Thanks for the help and keep them coming from the cutters, I have been trying all the recommendations as I read them and applying them as I go. Cut a lot of pine in SD and MT, but this is a different beast.

 

[tramp bushler]

We found that by the time a chain was half wore out it was useless in Poplar and cottonwood.
. If you take a few licks off your rider file off the outside of the riders / depth gauges it helps the cutters to take a wider kerf. take your d.gs. down to 35 or 40 thousands.
Is there mud or grit in the bark from the flood at stump height?
about all you can do for that is use your ax to chop the bark off.
If they are twisted, thats a whole nother problem.
I smashed a relatively new Ace Morgan 394 Hot rod under a cottonwood in Seward. The timber was frozen so it cut ok but I didn't know how much 1 big limb would counteract the obvious lean of the tree. . The snow was about 4' deep, wet coastal snow. I had it all packed around the tree and a run trail. But the tree fellmore than 140 degrees away from the lean because of 1 big limb. I had thot I could use a kerf dutchman to swing it into the face which was about 60-70 degrees to the right of the obvious lean ..
If it wouldn't have been for the snow I would have hung onto the starter handle and when the tree realeased its hold on the saw for a split second I would have pulled the power head clear. the tree was around 4' on the stump.
Instead I said bye to the saw and got out of there as best I could.

 

[cottonwood1]

Tramp
Some of the timber has sand in it, but yes I use my ax to take the bark off first. I will do what you said on the chain and see how that works too. I am working on my saws today for tomorrow and keep running in to read what you are all saying. Be nice to spend a day with some of you to learn from others and how they do thier tricks. On your saw i would agree it hurts to wreck a saw but you can replace them, I have seen many odd things with these trees they will hold so long and than do something you never planned on. Stay safe!!

 

[tramp bushler]

We have some good size stands of cottonwood along the coast. Northern Southeast and south central Alaska. places that tend to be infested with brown bear in the summer. I've seen Cottonwood over 7' on the stump. but so far 5' is the biggest I've fell. . If you can some pics would be great ! .

 

[paccity]

heres some of the ones in our local park got the last two bids on removing them all .bad tops. will be going down in a couple weeks to do another section . these were some pealers and lumber wet and heavey.