To sue or not to sue, a morale dilemma.

[CoreyTMorine]

Warning: this thread has a low entertainment value.
It gets a bit more substantial on page 4. But still not much fun.

kid hurts himself at school. in college actually. the kid screwed up and the teacher screwed up.

I was livid when I heard this story, still am. I’m not a big fan of higher education, these schools charge obscene money to “teach” kids skills that the kids probably don’t need and won’t use. Then this same kid ends up starting his or her life 50k in debt with a useless degree. To some extent you have to blame the kids and their parents, but to me there is also a lot of false advertising going on, and for that the institutions of higher learning should be held accountable.

Enough ranting, I’m angry because the kid is in school, this should be a place where safety comes before anything else. There is absolutely no reason for things to be otherwise. All of their deadlines are self imposed and there is no production figure that must be reached.

But will there be an OSHA investigation? Will the safety meeting record of this school be scrutinized? How about their disciplinary records? How many students were counseled for not following safety protocol? And everything else that an OSHA inspector should look at. It makes me angry that a teacher would screw up, they should be trained to handle an accident like this.

My question is should the kid sue the school? I would, but as I said earlier, I am quite biased against higher education. So I come here looking for some kind of morale direction. Am I over reacting, what do people here think?

Thanks for your time CTM

 

[Newfie]

Sue for what?

Being a retard and cutting his finger off? Not picking up the piece of his own finger before running around?

Where in your rant is any mention of the kids responsibility (and he is certainly mature enough to be responsible if he is in college)?


Maybe I should go back to school and do something stupid or accidental and sue the college. That'll get me rich quick.

WTF does our society feel the need to make our own mistakes and accidents someone elses financial responsibility?

 

[Treeman14]

No, the school should not be sued. The kid cut himself, it was an accident, no one else was involved. It really bothers me that people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. Everyone wants to sue someone. Besides, what would be the basis for his suit. I'm sure the school has insurance to cover his medical bills, what more does he want?

 

[rb_in_va]

My question is should the kid sue the school? I would, but as I said earlier, I am quite biased against higher education. So I come here looking for some kind of morale direction. Am I over reacting, what do people here think?

ACCIDENTS HAPPEN!

Yes you are overreacting. It is this sue-happy culture that is to blame for sky high insurance rates. Is it the school's fault the kid cut himself? I remember in shop class one time a kid sanded part if his fingertip off and the teacher yelled at him for bleeding on the floor. How times have changed, eh?

 

[Newfie]

I'm sure the school has insurance to cover his medical bills, what more does he want?

The winning lottery ticket seems to be the eventual aim.

 

[b1rdman]

I would agree with the others. It seems that your bias against higher education may be stonger that even you imagine.

 

[Newfie]

And why be biased against higher education?

 

[sawn_penn]

I always liked the sound of the New Zealand system. You can't sue someone over an injury. They have a nationwide accident compensation system that ensures that people who are disabled can have an OK (OK, not fantastic) life.

Oh, and if gross negligence caused the injury in the first place they'll put someone in gaol.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Fair enough. I can own the fact that I may be overreacting, I thought as much.

But to elaborate a little, the thing that doesn’t sit well with me is that kids go to school to get trained, they pay big bucks to do so. And yet in this situation the student cut his finger off, so there is either a problem with training protocol at this school, or the kid was negligent.

A teacher became involved and another mistake was made (forgetting to bring the cut off finger to the ER) so there was another instance of either lack of training or negligence, this time on the part of the teacher.

Now law suits that revolve around negligence are a horrible drain on society, and are wrong in any context. I.E. If I cut my hand through improper use of a chainsaw I have only myself to blame.

But lawsuits that address procedural error help to make procedures better. I.E. if the chain brake on my saw fails to work properly because the manufacturer switched to a cheaper material then a lawsuit will help them to see the error of their ways and hopefully to fix the problem. But if there is no lawsuit then the manufacturing corporation really has no reason to fix the chain brake.

As for overpriced liability insurance, I don’t really see it. I pay US$1400 per annum for US$ 1 million coverage. And last time I called a temp labor place it was $14 per hour per man, which included taxes, workmans comp, and whatever else they are required to provide.

Its true that healthcare is expensive, but I think that is because there are a lot of people who require medical assistance to exist, not so much because of malpractice suits

 

[CoreyTMorine]

“I'm sure the school has insurance to cover his medical bills, what more does he want? ”

The winning lottery ticket seems to be the eventual aim.
__________________
Mike”.

It works out well for big corporations if many people believe that way. It helps them to avoid costly court cases. And it is true that many people are out there looking for a looto ticket. Those people are wrong and vile and do great damage to society at large. But institutions must be held accountable for their actions and their procedures, and civil suits are not a bad way to do this. The alternative is government regulation, which allows to much opportunity for corruption.

 

[jmack]

Sue for what?

Being a retard and cutting his finger off? Not picking up the piece of his own finger before running around?

Where in your rant is any mention of the kids responsibility (and he is certainly mature enough to be responsible if he is in college)?


Maybe I should go back to school and do something stupid or accidental and sue the college. That'll get me rich quick.

WTF does our society feel the need to make our own mistakes and accidents someone elses financial responsibility?

ayuh

 

[jmack]

Fair enough. I can own the fact that I may be overreacting, I thought as much.

But to elaborate a little, the thing that doesn’t sit well with me is that kids go to school to get trained, they pay big bucks to do so. And yet in this situation the student cut his finger off, so there is either a problem with training protocol at this school, or the kid was negligent.

A teacher became involved and another mistake was made (forgetting to bring the cut off finger to the ER) so there was another instance of either lack of training or negligence, this time on the part of the teacher.

Now law suits that revolve around negligence are a horrible drain on society, and are wrong in any context. I.E. If I cut my hand through improper use of a chainsaw I have only myself to blame.

But lawsuits that address procedural error help to make procedures better. I.E. if the chain brake on my saw fails to work properly because the manufacturer switched to a cheaper material then a lawsuit will help them to see the error of their ways and hopefully to fix the problem. But if there is no lawsuit then the manufacturing corporation really has no reason to fix the chain brake.

As for overpriced liability insurance, I don’t really see it. I pay US$1400 per annum for US$ 1 million coverage. And last time I called a temp labor place it was $14 per hour per man, which included taxes, workmans comp, and whatever else they are required to provide.

Its true that healthcare is expensive, but I think that is because there are a lot of people who require medical assistance to exist, not so much because of malpractice suits

maybe he was jacked up on redbull pulling an all-nighter

 

[CoreyTMorine]

maybe he was jacked up on redbull pulling an all-nighter

Perhaps that is the case, but without an investigation we will not know what circumstances led to this unfortunate event. And the procedural error may never be corrected.

Is there a better way to force institutions to inspect their procedures and to correct any oversights?

Maybe the responsibility for this event rests solely with the student; in that case there is no need for the school to alter its training program. But it is not possible for us to make that evaluation here; we do not have nearly enough data.

To dismiss the possibility of a legal investigation and subsequent law suit based on the idea that ‘all suits are wrong’ is probably premature.

 

[Newfie]

personal responsibility can get us a long way.


Should you be required to pass an emt course and accident rescue course as a pre-requisite to getting your drivers license? What if you happened upon an accident and didn't know what to do but tried to help anyways? Lets sue you for negligence and sue the state for not making sure you were prepared for any traffic mishap.

I still don't see how the school is responsible for an adult having an accident, regardless of osha or any other kind of investigation. We are talking about an exacto knife not a table saw or welding rig. Common sense, not specialized training is required for use of an exacto knife. Where is the negligence?

Should the dining facilities have special training procedures for the employees in the event that some moron pokes himself in the eye with a fork or stabs himself trying to cut his food?

Accidents are usually just that. Sh!t happens.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

personal responsibility can get us a long way.


Should you be required to pass an emt course and accident rescue course as a pre-requisite to getting your drivers license? What if you happened upon an accident and didn't know what to do but tried to help anyways? Lets sue you for negligence and sue the state for not making sure you were prepared for any traffic mishap.
.

Most states have a good Samaritan law that protects people who stop to help out in an emergency. One of my first aid instructors mentioned that fact, I haven’t seen any hard information on such a thing.

I still don't see how the school is responsible for an adult having an accident, regardless of osha or any other kind of investigation. We are talking about an exacto knife not a table saw or welding rig. Common sense, not specialized training is required for use of an exacto knife. Where is the negligence?.

An exacto knife is a tool that requires training to properly use, it is no different from a table saw. If the school gave him the knife, told him to use it, and failed to train him properly then the school is surely bears some responsibility for the accident.

Should the dining facilities have special training procedures for the employees in the event that some moron pokes himself in the eye with a fork or stabs himself trying to cut his food?

everyone has to walk and eat and bath. i think it is reasonable to assume that adults can do these things on there own. So no, there is no need train people how to walk etc. As for employees of a cafeteria, they should minimally be trained in the Heimlich maneuver, and someone with first aid training should be on hand.

Accidents are usually just that. Sh!t happens.

In my experience "accidents" require a string of poor judgment, improper training, dangerous circumstance, and some bad luck. If you remove any one of those elements the “accident” is often completely avoided.

 

[Newfie]

Its attitudes likes yours that think there is some sort of moral dilemna here that is part of the problem this country has with responsibilty. Awful juvenile thinking for a supposed responsible adult.

Sue me for my opinion, because it's not my fault anyways and I can always rationalize it being someone elses fault.

I've used an exacto knife since I was 10 and I never cut myself never mind slice off a finger. No special training program or manual involved. Its a hobby knife for crying out loud.

I doubt you'll find the affirmation that you really came looking for.

 

[Dadatwins]

Almost unbelievable.

I hope this case gets thrown out of court.

Unbelivable that someone should even have the thought to consider suing a school over something so ridiculus. If a school hands out knives to a bunch of kindergarten kids and one gets hurt, its a different story, but as I understand this was a young adult who had an accident.
These are the threads that I miss Rocky J responses on. :angry2:

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Training and procedure are part of a safe workplace. Enforcement of those protocols are part of what make up a sustainable, competitive, industry.

I am flirting with the idea that institutions should be accountable for training. Its not a new idea.

When a climber falls out of a tree and paralyzes himself from the neck down who exactly assumes responsibility? It is certainly not the climber, he will probably never make any money again, so he is incapable of being responsible or accountable for his actions.

Maybe his wife or family will take on that responsibility. The constant requirements of care, the mortgage, the medical bills, the kids. Maybe the hospital will sue the homeowner or some other bystander. Maybe the wife has health coverage, and her health care provider will have to pay for climber for the rest of his life.

When my grandfather was a young man health care consisted of amputations and faith healing. In those days a man was responsible for his actions, if an arm was lost you had to get by without it, that or die. In that situation an individual is indeed accountable.

Today the only option is the best medical care available. We do not leave the weak and damaged alone to fend for themselves, to take responsibility for their actions. Rather we are all part of a connected whole. Like some massive human index fund the fate of one of us affects all of the others.

You say that law suits make insurance rates and products more expensive. I counter that it is medical costs associated with poor training that make insurance rates and products more expensive. The truth is probably in between.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

Almost unbelievable.

I hope this case gets thrown out of court.

its not in court treeco, purely hypothetical. I was just curious is all.

 

[stihlatit]

I'm thinking you got your answer to your over reaction as everyone before me has said it all. First words out sue!!!!! thats what peeves me more then anything.