Topping to make trees safe

[begleytree]

Firstoff, I don't top trees without existing problems. I mean that if someone wants an untouched tree topped "'cause it's too tall" they call someone else if they are set on it and can't be persuaded otherwise.

My question is: If a tree (say maple) has been topped previously, would you re-top for safety when asked?

I do, on certian previously topped species. I see a lot of topping in my area, and find (maples esp) 30 ft suckers attached to hollowed out leads. Really only attached to about 1 inch of wood. I will re-top these, really I just remove the large leads and hollow wood and leave everything else.

What do the rest of you do in these instances?
-Ralph

 

[NeTree]

I won't re-top, but I will try to cut out smaller, weakly attached suckers in favor of more deriable ones to turn into future leaders/branches/etc. It's a long process to restore a tree, usually annual pruning over several years.


Obviously, anything truly hazardous is addressed.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by begleytree
I will re-top these, really I just remove the large leads and hollow wood and leave everything else.

If you select the location of your cuts according to biological criteria, and not just whack em anywhere it suits the climber or the client, then you are doing restoration pruning. You are not re-topping. :angel:

By removing the decayed wood, you are cleaning the crown. If the hollow is not too severe and there are signs of viable compartmentalization, then you can shorten the attached leads. There you will be reducing the crown. Remove crowded or weak sprouts as Erik suggests and you are thinning the crown. :Eye: ANSI and you will understand the differences and be more clear on what you are doing.

This weekend, Dan TreeCo and I will be restoring the crown of a big old maple that was topped maybe 10-15 years ago. Sounds like the kind of tree you are looking at. Maybe we'll be able to get useful pics.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Mike, this thread is about restoring previously topped trees, so does your comment fit here?

If you want to beat the anti-reduction drum some more, how about continuing the pink board discussion about where and when to head back damaged limbs? You've had a while to think on it, and that ball is still in your court.

That would be more work than just another potshot, but much more useful to lurkers and contributors alike.

 

[John Stewart]

Hey
I would top a tree if it was the last option and safety was a factor and removal was not!
So with that said I have never had the opportunity to top something and I hope I never do!
Later
John

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Imagery

i think normal branches will be 'rooted' deeply to or past the parent stem center. The topical branches forced in survival mode to supply energy, sugars when a tree is topped are a 'scared' and overcompensating response i think for long term considerations. At this point, short term survival is more key to the tree, than long term; so it doesn't 'care' how they are attached, as they race to replace functions lost; before even more damage results. Roots dieback to the amount of energy available from top to process root intake; so to prevent even further setback etc.; the plant is in high gear sprouting profusely. This is obviously a stressor; loss of energy producing and storing leaves; and having to rush to create more faster than usual.

In time the subsequent layering of bark etc. to larger diameter can 'swallow' over the topical connections, approximating the deeper, natural connections of 'properly' grown branches with maximum strength when not produced in emergency mode. i don't think these connections will 'bury' with as much solidness unless thinned, so that the ensuing layers of bark/wood then subsequent supporting grain that comes from the layering don't have to try to maximize strength in as many directions; each shift in strength to accomadate 1 forsaking another with very few if any exception i would think. In normal growth, with a 'cooler head' to 'think' with; the tree will tend to make better long term choices of strategies. Like only putting 1-2 branches out of the same parent at a given height; so as to be able to maximze support to that unit. The joint is kinda akin to included bark joints.

i think altering the tree's response (later, after energy supplies from the flush of leaves have helped thru the short term survival emergency) this time is not as much meddling as usual. Taking some of the overcompensating growth, that was thrown out in survival mode; when the usual strength strategies were not the issue. When the tree was not 'thinking' of tomorrow, just making it thru the day. i wonder about properly formed branch protection boundaries though in this. Especially in positions of topping; leaving no protection for the stob to compartmentalize inviting rot so close to these branches we thin from a topped tree.

:alien: :alien:

 

[treeman82]

I just topped a couple of river birches along my driveway a couple months back. I went up there on spurs, took out any dead wood on the main stems, and then blew out about 10 foot tops or so. G-d willing, they will be dead within the next few years. If they don't die, well then I can just go up there in spurs again and keep hacking at it. The reason why I want them gone is because they hang over our driveway very badly. Too large for the area.

 

[rumination]

ummm...why not just cut them down and replace with trees you actually like?

 

[John Stewart]

Originally posted by treeman82
I just topped a couple of river birches along my driveway a couple months back. I went up there on spurs, took out any dead wood on the main stems, and then blew out about 10 foot tops or so. G-d willing, they will be dead within the next few years. If they don't die, well then I can just go up there in spurs again and keep hacking at it. The reason why I want them gone is because they hang over our driveway very badly. Too large for the area.

You know you really are messed up!
You need to find a new interest!
Why not just be the Aggie that you are in school for!
You can plant a new crop each year and kill it when you want and be the total control freak that you are!
Or do crops have the same rights as gay's!
Sorry guy's wrong thread!
Just get a life and quit wastin yours and our time!
Later
John

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by treeman82
I just topped a couple of river birches along my driveway a couple months back. I went up there on spurs, took out any dead wood on the main stems, and then blew out about 10 foot tops or so. G-d willing, they will be dead within the next few years. If they don't die, well then I can just go up there in spurs again and keep hacking at it. The reason why I want them gone is because they hang over our driveway very badly. Too large for the area.

Weird post, bro.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by treeman82
The reason why I want them gone is because they hang over our driveway very badly. Too large for the area.

Is this what they teach in college in MA? You gotta be kidding us, right? Sarcasm doesn't e-transmit that well, ya know?

If they are too wide, then why are you making them shorter?
My belly is too wide, but whacking my head off ain't gonna help that.
Whacking the tops off trees just makes them bush out wider.

I've reduced the width, and sometimes the height, of many a river birch, with good to excellent results. 'Heritage; riverbirches break apart if they are not reduced down here. Their branching habit gives you many good targets. They don't codit well, but are vigorous enough to seal well enough.

Please tell us you were joking, ok?

 

[John Stewart]

You know Guy I had hoped the same thing but I think this guy is serious!
I said the same thing on another post and hoped he would say "ha you suckers fell for it!"
But he didn't he tried to explain himself further!
I almost want to put him on ignore but the lad needs help!
I hope I am wrong!
Later
John

 

[Gord]

i topped a fir a week or so ago for safety issues due to the fact that the homeowners decided they wanted a new garage so they cut about 40% of the support root system off the tree. the tree was about 110' originally (tho it had been topped decades ago at about 40') with three codominant stems. it was also fairly exposed to the wind and had 360 degrees of targets. so now it looks like this. had to speedline all the brush off what a pain.

 

[Gord]

the new garage.

 

[wiley_p]

really nothing wrong with that you took another step in the inevitable removal of this tree, seems like sound management.

 

[treeman82]

The trees are maybe 5' off the side of the driveway. They go over the driveway, and over the yard on the other side. They are large enough that whenever you drive under them to come into the driveway, they scrape the top of the cars. Forget them in the winter... you have to go and knock the snow off of them so that you can get through. During the growing season, they are constantly losing limbs on the driveway. If I was to just go and lop off the 5? leads that go over the driveway, the trees would look all lopsided, not to mention the fact that everybody would be pissed when I cut down 5 live stems. However, if they die first, and THEN I cut them down... that's a little different. It was the same thing with the pine trees along the driveway. They used to overhang the driveway WAY too much. Again, had to knock the snow off them in the winter, it closed in the property over there a lot, and we would always get sap dripping down on the cars. My father never liked it when I would go and cut branches to get clearance for the cars. Finally one day I got fed up and got my HT75 out. Whatever I could reach that was over the property line, got cut off. Plenty of clearance now, and no more sap. The former owner of the property realized that the trees were too large for the location, but refused to take any responsibility for their care or removal.

BTW, I topped the river birches remove some of the weight that was bringing them down on top of the driveway.

 

[John Stewart]

I swear he has me on ignore!
Matt I just don't get you, you have no problem spurin up a live tree and topping them!
But you wont remove the over hangin limbs because the tree will look lopsided!
You are worried about everybody freakin out when you remove live trees and you arent worried about someone saying "Look you destroyed those trees by topping them"
Well I guess with someone like you in the hood and the education you are givin them you won't have to worry about them understanding what a hack is!
You know Matt think about the education factor if everybody thinks that you are going to college to be one of us!
They will think that you must be doing what is right and just think where that might lead!
Come On Man Give It A Shake!
Later
John

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by wiley_p
really nothing wrong with that you took another step in the inevitable removal of this tree, seems like sound management.

I agree. Gord you took the tree down to where you thought it had to be for biological reasons (root/shoot ratio) as well as preventing windthrow, and made the cuts to the best available node/lateral. That is selective, not predetermined, so it was reduction, not topping.

I know, I know, this is a case where the definitional lines are blurred, and it may have felt like hacking while you were doing it. But your cuts were not random, and you did the best you could for the tree.

Wiley, all trees eventually have to be removed, so you are right. I think Gord bought all the safe useful years he could for that thing.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by treeman82
During the growing season, they are constantly losing limbs on the driveway. If I was to just go and lop off the 5? leads that go over the driveway, the trees would look all lopsided, not to mention the fact that everybody would be pissed when I cut down 5 live stems. My father never liked it when I would go and cut branches to get clearance for the cars.
I wouldn't like it either, if you were "lopping" instead of pruning to upright laterals like a river birch should be pruned. With some experience you may be able to :Eye: select the cuts that will leave a natural form and still provide necessary clearance.
The former owner of the property realized that the trees were too large for the location, but refused to take any responsibility for their care or removal.

What hangs over another property's airspace is their tree and they can do what they want with it, within reasonable limits.

Stewie, you're getting a little emotional there, it bro.

 

[John Stewart]

Ya thanks Guy I was startin to sound like a chick!
I think I have been watchin to many chick flicks
And my wife has been washin my chainsaw pant's with fabric softener
And my dog died
So would you cut me some slack!
Don't worry I'll get over it!
Later
John