Trail clearing for a new park

[Dan F]

The local university was just given approximately 450 acres of abandoned gravel pit to be converted to a new nature park....

We have contacted the developer, and they have sent us some stuff regarding trails, etc.

What we are looking at is needing to build several miles of trails. Some of it may simply be mowing, some may require some moderate (or more) brush cutting. All walking trails will require 3" of aggregate, which is on site.

For those of you who have done anything similiar, how did you price it? They have estimated costs associated with the trails, and right now what they want from us (from what we can tell) is confirmation that those numbers are correct....

I've got a copy of the 1997 RS Means book, I have glanced at it briefly, but haven't really sat down with it yet to figure out what they have for anything. I do know that they list site clearing by the acre, and we will be clearing acreage by 4 and 8 foot swaths....

Thoughts anybody? There's a good chance we will be doing at least a portion of the work, so we need to COA on costs from the get-go.....


Dan

 

[Stumper]

How did I price it? Too low! My advice would be: Walk it. Figure it. Double it. Submit it.

 

[treeman82]

Dan, will you be able to get a forestry mower in there? Figure out how long it will take you with one of those and multiply that by your daily rate for the machine.

 

[Dan F]

I don't know yet whether we will be able to simply mow it or not. Some of it, probably. Other parts, probably not.

I think we will probably try to walk it on Wednesday, it'll be a long day if we walk it all.... Five miles of trails need to be built at 4 foot wide, and I think around 3.8 miles at 8 foot wide.

Stumper- if you priced it too low, was it one thing that slowed you down (i.e.- more trees to fell than expected), or did you just price it too low overall? How long did it take you to clear, say, 100' of path in moderate and heavy brush conditions, and how many people did you have helping? Did you have to chip it, or simply toss it to the side?

Did you have to put down an aggregate path? If so, how did you do it??? I'm for darmn sure not pushing wheelbarrows 5 miles one direction! We'll make the path wide enough for at least a Mule or Gator.....

Anybody use a new ToolCat from BobCat yet? I could see us utilizing one or two of those for this project, if anyone has them for rent by then....

I'm sure we will need to cut down trees to clear a path. With a 3" aggregate (probably flume gravel) base, the stumps won't necessarily need to be cut truly flush, but could probably be left about an inch or so above grade.... Anybody ever tried a Sawzall for smaller trees, say 3" or less (small enough a notch isn't needed)? A 10-pack of blades costs about as much as a new chain for the saw, and I think a lot of time would be saved using the throw-away blades on the Sawzall.... I can change a Sawzall blade in less than 30 seconds with a quick-change setup, versus close to five minutes with a chainsaw. And I think the Sawzall blades would last longer in the dirt too.... Just a thought, if anybody can give me a good reason why this shouldn't be tried, I probably wouldn't attempt it..... Power source wouldn't need to be an issue, could use a cordless Sawzall, or put a generator in the back of the aforementioned Mule or Gator....

I'm sure I'll have more ??????'s later.


Dan

 

[Stumper]

I haven't done any improved paths where I put down gravel or other base.(Well I have spread chips on some garden paths but that's another story) What messed me up was the clean up. It's been a long time since I did any of it and it wasn't a project of the size you are contemplating. If they are 4' paths you could probably tow a small chipper and blow chips. Dragging brush to staging areas can eat up a bunch of time. I didn't really get hurt just took too long. I'm not favourably impressed with sawsalls. I'd much prefer a small chainsaw for those little trees. A trimmer/brushcutter might be nice and save your back a little.

 

[geofore]

Sawzall

Sawzall makes what they call a green blade, 17" and green for trees. They also have gas powered, two stroke engine Sawzalls but electric will work. How long is your extention cord? If you do the job, plan on getting a dump truck in to lay the aggregate down. This will mean your path will have to be wide enough for the truck. It will grow in with time but someone will have to get a mowwer through there to mow. Next question is their mowwer a tractor with brush hog or smaller? What size equipment will they have to get down the paths to maintain them? A lot of times it is easier to take a dozer through to clear the path even if you're are going to cut trees. If you have to haul the trees out before or after you clear the path you need to get a truck through there with a chipper behind it and blow the chips into the woods? you might want a smaller tracked machine to pack the aggregate down. It doesn't sound like you are thinking big enough and without walking it you don't know enough to bid it. You may be able to run a brush hog through and cut one or two trees but then you may need a dozer to push a trail through and tow your dump truck out when it gets stuck. Walk it, take notes and spray paint the trails trees so you can find it when you do it. Think bigger, I did a few miles of trail and found the dozer to be most effective when combined with a few guys with chainsaws. A good operator can push a lot in a day but the trucking in the aggregate eats time even if it is a small path and you want to use a tracked Bob with a trailer aggregate weighs alot and doesn't spread very far. Last trail I did was a mile long, no aggregate. We used a loader, dozer and dump truck with guys and chainsaws. Dozer to level and move small stuff, loader to load dump to fill in the low spots and saw crew to move large trees out. Think bigger than bobcat. Michigan loader or something in that range can do it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i have used sawzalls getting sections of wood out of a chainlink fence, getting past a layer of barbwire in stump, some root/low dirty stump areas etc.

Other wise, keeping chain out of dirt, cutting through 3" stuff especially; i think that a chainsaw would fly through, provide more kerfed reliefs etc. much faster/ productively than a recipricating saw. Cords would have limitations, of length, safety etc.; though electric is quieter, easier starting, less vib. The maneuverability of not being tethered let alone power, walk with chainbrake on, keep it sharp and work in bulk directed targets, ya don't have to restart it as much. Land stuff on top of stuff if ya need to cut, and don't hit the ground with saw; make worst (stump) cuts last after cleaning what ya can reasonably with blower, water hose, knocking dirt out of corners with screw driver or prybar tip before/during cleaning (always finishing with more cleaning. Ya only got to hit where the saw does. Grade your cuts and get cleanest ones first, watching for metal/sand/rock/glass etc. And ya might make it through without changing chain out till end.

IMLHO this would be chainsaw country, especially in this bulk, working smart and safe.

:alien:

 

[Dan F]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
If you want to use a sawzall instead of a chainsaw, then that just tells us you know absolutely nothing about chainsaws.

Brian, did you read my thoughts at all on why I was considering the use of a Sawzall???? I know quite a bit about chainsaws, more than your average Joe-homeowner, much, much more.... I am concerned about flush cuts dulling the chain fast enough to where you would be spending more of your time sharpening/changing chains than you would spend cutting. If one is careful enough, I suppose that it wouldn't be that big of an issue though, and from the points everyone has brought up, I don't think we will attempt it. It was just an idea, sounded good at the time. But then again, I've got a lot of those, 99% of them don't ever come to fruition though....

Again, the tree removal portion of this job will be truly minor compared to the whole job.

Yes, I know. But we are trying to cover our arse from this point on, trying to determine as best as we can what will work, what won't, and what may be worth a try.

We aren't submitting a bid at this point in time... In the future one WILL be submitted though. The construction company/developer (from what we can tell) is wanting confirmation that their numbers are at least in the ballpark.

Right now, without walking it, or talking directly to anyone at the construction company, we've got many more questions than answers at this point. Which is part of why I asked about the whole thing here, so you could ask questions that I don't know the answer to!

Geofore, thanks for the suggestions, but I don't think we will be able to get too large with equipment. The trails will only be 4' and 8' wide! The 8' trails will probably be dozed out, the 4'ers are a different story altogether!!!!


Dan

 

[geofore]

trails/ cost

The D4 or JD450 are smaller machines that can do small trails but they can't push anything big. The trails I pushed you had to get a truck through. The concerns I got from the customer was maintaining it after we were gone. They wanted a pickup to clean up trash bags and a tractor with brush hog to mow. A brushwacker with a saw blade will flush cut small trees, Sthil FS85 or bigger with carbide tipped circular saw blade. I've got an old FS90 that I used for that purpose. Beats bending over with a sawzall. Call me crazy but I did take a tree down with a sawzall, with green blades just so I could say been there done that, not something I'd want to do a second time. 90' 12/3 extention cord, no power drop. Use a ground fault interupter so you don't worry about frying yourself if you cut the cord by accident If you walk it you may find out all you need is a Kabota with loader bucket on the front and a brush hog on the back and a few chains. Sight unseen could be anything, add your walk through in the bid price. Take a buddy that runs a dozer along to tell you what he thinks it'll take.