It has been suggested to throw away the clove hitch/ tautline assemblies. Especially, pointing out that it is irrational to teach new guys them. Partly, because they both (as a family) need stopper knots.
i guess some arguments could be made there!
But i am one that has always taught these to anyone interested in climbing, and this is why:
1)i think that the clove or double clove (tautline) is of a family of knots; that one can start off with and make more positively; for as you practice one, you practice the other; as you learn about the faults of one you learn about the other. There is a lot to learn; it has always seemed to me, so by learning common families of things helps to insure faster, more complete, positive progress. You can even fold into the rolling hitch, constrictors and distal; all from a base mastery and expense of just learning the clove +1 move very well. What a bargain!
2)Mastering the clove alone and all it can do for you, can get you out of a lot of situations; because of its flexability. It is called "The Mother of all Knots". Of course i look at this comprehensively and not just in a tree. You can tie a slipped clove, slipped constrictor; make a clove from a 'muenter' around an anchor, or undo it to that control point (muenter) while untying. If that was a bowline, or running bowline, untying/tying under tension, and adjusting, maintaining control; it would be quite a bit trickier. It is clean simplicity in its application and manufacture.
3)Virtually all open ended knots, especially in life support call for a stopper knot, especially after the evolution that brought us to nylon that is slipperier. The old hemp had hairs on it that would interlock, and help hold a knot; the more tension there was; the more the stiff hairs locked. i use a bowline without stopper knots directly; but i make it with 2 choking rings, and a 'yosemite tie off' that keeps the tail out of the eye. The extra choking ring and tie off on the tail secure it well i think; without the backup. But, a single bowline (the king of knots), calls for a stopper knot too. That is just knotting. Tom makes one, that is even more secure by a few degrees, but it lets the tail end up inside the eye; i am confident in the holding power and stay with the 'yosemite' end as in "On Rope". All knots, even stopper or 'backup' knots should have a tail on them >/= 4x the lines diameter for safety. We keep bright colored tape (diffrent colors for diffrent ends of the same line) that runs 2-4" up on the 1/2" lines; just leaving this outside the knot, marks it as safe.
4)i kind of let a newbie evolve, advance through the knots; mostly i used to do this in case they went some place else, talked up with some climbers or did personal research etc., they wouldn't be lost, they could confidentally and comfortably fit in and grow there too. That is changing as these new breed of things become more standard. But, still feel that with the utility of the clove, letting them taste diffrent ways, be things, to be able to get by without a seperate eye to eye tail, or no tail at all is good background and experience. i have learned and carried things from each evolution point. So i don't see any reason why a beginning /part time climber; can't climb with the simpler/ basic/complimenting stuff for 3-4 weeks, then show enough command and interest to advance to the next level. If they can't, that is self sorting! i think in the comprehensive sense; you are doing them a favor; if they end up following thru. But, that is probably when you have someone under your wing, and not when they are being sent to a climbing school.
Sometimes the scenic route, will give the most background!
i guess some arguments could be made there!
But i am one that has always taught these to anyone interested in climbing, and this is why:
1)i think that the clove or double clove (tautline) is of a family of knots; that one can start off with and make more positively; for as you practice one, you practice the other; as you learn about the faults of one you learn about the other. There is a lot to learn; it has always seemed to me, so by learning common families of things helps to insure faster, more complete, positive progress. You can even fold into the rolling hitch, constrictors and distal; all from a base mastery and expense of just learning the clove +1 move very well. What a bargain!
2)Mastering the clove alone and all it can do for you, can get you out of a lot of situations; because of its flexability. It is called "The Mother of all Knots". Of course i look at this comprehensively and not just in a tree. You can tie a slipped clove, slipped constrictor; make a clove from a 'muenter' around an anchor, or undo it to that control point (muenter) while untying. If that was a bowline, or running bowline, untying/tying under tension, and adjusting, maintaining control; it would be quite a bit trickier. It is clean simplicity in its application and manufacture.
3)Virtually all open ended knots, especially in life support call for a stopper knot, especially after the evolution that brought us to nylon that is slipperier. The old hemp had hairs on it that would interlock, and help hold a knot; the more tension there was; the more the stiff hairs locked. i use a bowline without stopper knots directly; but i make it with 2 choking rings, and a 'yosemite tie off' that keeps the tail out of the eye. The extra choking ring and tie off on the tail secure it well i think; without the backup. But, a single bowline (the king of knots), calls for a stopper knot too. That is just knotting. Tom makes one, that is even more secure by a few degrees, but it lets the tail end up inside the eye; i am confident in the holding power and stay with the 'yosemite' end as in "On Rope". All knots, even stopper or 'backup' knots should have a tail on them >/= 4x the lines diameter for safety. We keep bright colored tape (diffrent colors for diffrent ends of the same line) that runs 2-4" up on the 1/2" lines; just leaving this outside the knot, marks it as safe.
4)i kind of let a newbie evolve, advance through the knots; mostly i used to do this in case they went some place else, talked up with some climbers or did personal research etc., they wouldn't be lost, they could confidentally and comfortably fit in and grow there too. That is changing as these new breed of things become more standard. But, still feel that with the utility of the clove, letting them taste diffrent ways, be things, to be able to get by without a seperate eye to eye tail, or no tail at all is good background and experience. i have learned and carried things from each evolution point. So i don't see any reason why a beginning /part time climber; can't climb with the simpler/ basic/complimenting stuff for 3-4 weeks, then show enough command and interest to advance to the next level. If they can't, that is self sorting! i think in the comprehensive sense; you are doing them a favor; if they end up following thru. But, that is probably when you have someone under your wing, and not when they are being sent to a climbing school.
Sometimes the scenic route, will give the most background!
