Tree Surgery combined with lopping? Show us what you really know.

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Proarbor

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Just wondering if anyone has noticed the high levels of masterful,supposedly professional tree surgeons advertising TREE LOPPING AND TOPPING (not to be confused with the correct aplication of pollarding.) in their online ads? I know that some will say this is just an effort to try to capture the attention of the ignorant so as to be able to then educate them, but this line of thought is total C**P as the internet is one of a few perfect places to educate the general public while showing your profesionalism and worthyness of being considered for potential jobs. :angry:
 
Don't think you'll find very many here on Arboristsite that do, but yes they're everywhere, not so much in the yellow pages here as on the sides of the hacks trucks with Bubbas Tree Service and list of half-assed services they offer.

Just reminded me of something when I was in CA alot of co's were advertising Tree Lacing?? What is that supposed to be?
 
proper application of pollarding....management technque throughout the life of the tree, in my opinion pollarding mature trees is topping


jamie
 
Originally posted by jamie
proper application of pollarding....management technque throughout the life of the tree, in my opinion pollarding mature trees is topping


jamie

It depends on where you make the cut. Four inch cuts would be pushing it. If all the cuts are in the 1-2 inch range then it still could be managed.
 
i hate the term lopping as it implies to my thoughts the careless removal of a branch or branches,[hardly tree surgery]..and topping well do we need to say anymore: about that mad: ..actual looping and topping terms do exist but only for loggers topping is the removal of the top [usualy coniferous trees] which is to small to go for pulp..and lopping is another word for limb removal same as snedding...also topping [on live trees as aposed to fallen trees] was once widely carried out in europe to supply farmers with winter fodder to feed animals ie goats and cattle
 
Originally posted by jamie
proper application of pollarding....management technque throughout the life of the tree, in my opinion pollarding mature trees is topping


all depend on species.mature poplars and willows respond well usualy but not oak or beech...true pollarding invovles all the crown to be remove usualy leaving clear stem with cuts going back to growing points..as you know ..ive seen some so called pollarding ..where the cutter has left a job that much more resembles a severe topping
 
ok

my interpretation is when the tree is young cut it, each year (or so) cut back to just above last cut, where a knuckle will form.

i dont know about how different species react but i did read a good paper on repollarding mature beech....

at a site i was working on we were to pollard to 2meters, 12 meters any meters, had to pollard a dead poplar stick.......basically cuttin everything off but leave a stick of said height

jamie
 
Re: ok

Originally posted by jamie


at a site i was working on we were to pollard to 2meters, 12 meters any meters, had to pollard a dead poplar stick.......basically cuttin everything off but leave a stick of said height

jamie

That's abuse of the term. They're just giving an arbitrary hight and saying "Cut it".

The two most important specise charitaristics is how well the resprout and how well they compartmentalize.
 
Re: ok

Originally posted by jamie
my interpretation is when the tree is young cut it, each year (or so) cut back to just above last cut, where a knuckle will form.

Thats the interpretation of pollarding that i understand to be correct. It is important to make sure that you are cutting the regrowth back to its collar as in a normal cut though. I dont see any reason why you couldnt pollard a mature tree (providing you were not making huge cuts) i just dont see the point of pollarding if the tree is already of a large size you would be far better off maintaining the natural cannopy.:blob6:
 
Originally posted by ROLLACOSTA
cuts going back to growing points..
Yes, RC, Yes, growing points are nodes, and nodes are natural targets whether or not a lateral branch is present.

Below is a sneak preview:Restorative heading cuts are not random and predetermined, like topping cuts, but selected according to biological criteria. Primordial nodes are only growth points where leaves grew out of the bark. They will put out relatively weak growth that is only attached to the bark. Branch nodes contain preformed buds, once associated with a terminal bud, that are connected to the vascular stream and often anchored by compacted xylem. The following characteristics can make branch nodes good natural targets:

BUMPS, BULGES AND WRINKLES

BUMPS on branches can indicate locations of nodes. Preformed lateral buds, complete with scales, are tucked into some of these bumps. Sometimes visible to the naked eye, they are ready to assume apical dominance. Inside some of these buds, pith trails into the heart of the parent are enclosed by compacted xylem. Research is needed to establish how well this deep grip attaches the growth from these latent buds. But after this storm the best targets had to be chosen, and the tree’s response managed. Bumps caused by galls or cankers or other diseases differ greatly in appearance. These conditions indicate an inappropriate location for a heading cut; the target must contain sound wood and a CODIT wall.


BULGES just before a decrease in diameter are often target indicators. Taper often changes at terminal nodes, so a cut just outside a bulge will retain more symmetry and structure. If drop-crotching exposes the remaining branches to more stress and strain, will the tree be safer than if heading cuts were made? “When exposed by the removal of neighboring stems, previously sheltered and mechanically reliable body parts may deform or break even under wind conditions that are ‘normal’.”6 The damping effect of limbs, for years thickened by torque, is altered while other branches thicken under the new load.

WRINKLES on leaders near bumps and bulges can resemble the swollen collars that form around the base of branches. If a lateral branch was shed at these locations, there may already be preformed lateral buds on the outside and also the “unique chemical barrier called the branch protection zones”7 Are sealed branch stubs natural targets because they contain both preformed lateral buds and these chemicals that protect against decay? Research into the chemical constituents within different nodes is needed to determine the suitability of different targets.
 
The topping that I witnessed in Europe in the name of pollarding was disturbing. My friend called me from Italy, venting about the prevalence of tree mutilation that he saw there, and I can agree with that. Poland, Czech Republic, Germany, you see it all there.

Here in the states, it seems people top and call it topping (or trimming, I know...). In Europe, though, far more people claim it's pollarding. Very few do a good job of pollarding, IMHO.
 
at the end of the day the less you take off the tree the better for it
 
Not always the case. Giving a tree structure is more benificial than trying to be to conservitave. The most important thing is to work with the tree not against it ie natural target prunning instead of lopping.
:D
 
Originally posted by Nickrosis
The topping that I witnessed in Europe in the name of pollarding was disturbing.
In Athens the standard street tree is a mulberry topped @~12'. In their public gardens they have redbuds--topped@~10-12'.

It was ghastly. Cuts were 8-10" across, no followup. Trees permanently stunted. Athens is a nasty, unlivable city. It was painful to think how much more livable it could be if they planted and cared for decent trees. And their hillsides used to be covered with cedar etc., now are bare rock. Humans make their own hell on earth. But I didn't speak the lingo, so...

Then again, in dealing with urban foresters here, we don't always speak the same lingo either. Like any 2 groups getting together, arbs and ufs need to learn some common terms.

And yeah I'm with you proarbor, often you just have to grit your teeth and take out what's not providing longterm value to the tree. It hurts me alot more than it hurts the tree sometimes.
 
ok

those 'pollards' i was talking about were read as butcher tree, ok it created 'standing deadwood habitat'....crap habitat but habitat i suppose......

as for topping trees in europe im sure it happens all over

jamie
 

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