Tree that blunts chainsaw

[Skippydiesel]

Hi All,

I am new to this Forum - I have been using chain saws since the 1970"s - No expert but can get the job done.

Yesterday, went to cutdown a fire "killed" tree for fire wood. Tree dead, may be 4 years. No idea what sort of tree.

Son & I doing the job, with 3 chain saws, all sharpened by me. When cutting dry timber, for fire, we usually expect about 3 hrs +/- before a change to a freshly sharpened chain.

Son doing the felling - complained that saw going blunt fast. Got the tree down and we both started to "break it up". Small branches - no problem.

Got to main trunk - lucky if we managed 4 cuts each before changing chains - same deal on fresh chains.

Anyone with a suggestion;

• As to what sort of tree?
• Suitable chain to finish the job, without having to change chains every 4 cuts of main trunk?

 

[heimannm]

Is the tree in a flood plain? If so it may be loaded with silt. Semi-chisel chain will hold an edge longer than square ground or round filed chisel for dirty wood. Try 20 or 25 degrees rather than 30 or 35 degrees for a top plate angle, won't be quite as fast but will hold an edge longer. You can also try on size larger file to reduce the hook (side plate angle) a bit, again it will cut slower but will hold an edge longer.

Mark

 

[capetrees]

Hi All,

I am new to this Forum - I have been using chain saws since the 1970"s - No expert but can get the job done.

Yesterday, went to cutdown a fire "killed" tree for fire wood. Tree dead, may be 4 years. No idea what sort of tree.

Son & I doing the job, with 3 chain saws, all sharpened by me. When cutting dry timber, for fire, we usually expect about 3 hrs +/- before a change to a freshly sharpened chain.

Son doing the felling - complained that saw going blunt fast. Got the tree down and we both started to "break it up". Small branches - no problem.

Got to main trunk - lucky if we managed 4 cuts each before changing chains - same deal on fresh chains.

Anyone with a suggestion;

• As to what sort of tree?
• Suitable chain to finish the job, without having to change chains every 4 cuts of main trunk?

Gotta have a bit more info. The Oaks? Is that a part of the country? What are the other trees around the dead ones?

My guess is the chains weren't sharpened correctly for some reason. Have the rakers been dropped?

 

[sean donato]

You mentioned it's a fire tree, the carbon from burning is quite abrasive along with any dirt or debris that attached itself to the trunk. Unfortunately I don't think normal chain will yearly great results, I would reccomend carbide chain. It does require diamond files or wheels to sharpen. A normal file won't touch the cutter. Should last a good long time between sharpening.

 

[MagraAdam]

You mentioned it's a fire tree, the carbon from burning is quite abrasive along with any dirt or debris that attached itself to the trunk. Unfortunately I don't think normal chain will yearly great results, I would reccomend carbide chain. It does require diamond files or wheels to sharpen. A normal file won't touch the cutter. Should last a good long time between sharpening.

I was going to say the same thing. Charcoal on the outside will blunt the chain. Trees after a fire I find are super hard too, I know fire hardening is a thing with wooden tools, so assume it applies to a tree too. And again, a carbide chain will stay sharper longer but will never be as sharp as a normal chain.

 

[Huskybill]

I cut a tree once that took the edge off the chain I had to stop and sharpen it. It was hard like a rock. I’m not sure if it was a rock maple. It wasn’t oak, or dead punk pink colored oak. We had carbide cutters in a planer and planing rock maple boards from a forge was tough. It used the boards for bearing ways.

 

[Skippydiesel]

Thanks for your thoughts -

My location 2 hrs SW of Sydney, NSW, Australia.
The tree is a native eucalypt (creamy coloured hard wood with a twisting grain) of some description, that died in a fire a few years back. This is unusual for our trees that usually "come back" after fire. Tree is set on the edge of a dry sclerophyll forest of mixed species - predominate tress are Iron Bark, Stringy Bark, Turpentine, some Sydney Grey Gum. It most cosily resembles (remember its been dead a while) a Sydney Grey Gum.
Chains used are (I think) Full Chisel in profile either Stihl, Husqvarna or Oregon - never had a problem with these three brands over the last 20 years plus.
Have been sharpening/servicing my own saws for at least 40 years - I was in agriculture, so saws just another tool, not my livelihood (forester etc). Always hand sharpen with round file & check/adjust raker/depth gauges when/if needed.

I think I will give the tungsten carbide chain a go - just one chain to try - can always purchase another later.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Not many on here are going to be able to pick the species for you unless they are fellow Aussies.
Over this side of the ditch, back in '96 we had a good dump of snow about this time of year and it then froze for the next 10 days it never got above -5 degrees C. That wee event tipped over a heap of various Eucalyptus trees, mature old trees, otherwise tall and strong- but did not like the cold!
Spent the next Spring cutting quite a few standing dead trees down and processing into firewood.
All were extremely hard on chain and bars, but I struck a few with Sycamore like twisting spiral grain and they were just proper *******s!
I have a rough idea when it comes to running a file over a chain and how to turn an oil pump up to max, but that stuff still had the ability to dull chains very quickly and glaze bars, but it was even harder on an axe, was hard enough on a 45 tonne hydraulic splitter!
You guys can keep standing dead gum on your side of the Tasman thanks!

 

[L34]

+1 on charcoal dulling chains.
Would also try semi chisel chain.

 

[MagraAdam]

I'm from Tas and my wood isn't as hard as your mainland stuff, but it's not red gum. Could it be yellow box?

 

[Bwildered]

Thanks for your thoughts -

My location 2 hrs SW of Sydney, NSW, Australia.
The tree is a native eucalypt (creamy coloured hard wood with a twisting grain) of some description, that died in a fire a few years back. This is unusual for our trees that usually "come back" after fire. Tree is set on the edge of a dry sclerophyll forest of mixed species - predominate tress are Iron Bark, Stringy Bark, Turpentine, some Sydney Grey Gum. It most cosily resembles (remember its been dead a while) a Sydney Grey Gum.
Chains used are (I think) Full Chisel in profile either Stihl, Husqvarna or Oregon - never had a problem with these three brands over the last 20 years plus.
Have been sharpening/servicing my own saws for at least 40 years - I was in agriculture, so saws just another tool, not my livelihood (forester etc). Always hand sharpen with round file & check/adjust raker/depth gauges when/if needed.

I think I will give the tungsten carbide chain a go - just one chain to try - can always purchase another later.

With dead eucalyptus and such trees , the ants will get in between the bark and the sapwood & carry sand & soils into their galleries, sometimes it' can be very thick and sandy, that will take the edge straight off the cutters.
Turpentine is high in silica & hard on cutting edges.

 

[Jeffkrib]

Iv’e come across this issue too and it was 100% due to termites carrying grains of quartz into the log. Same thing Sydney grey gum got about four cuts before it was blunt. Double check if it’s got termite tunnels, if thats the case either carbide or abandon the log!

 

[Canyon Angler]

+1 on silica getting into the wood and raising hell with cutting tools. I was working with some iroko (aka "African teak") several years back when I was making some furniture for a Boston Whaler, and besides being stressed and twistier than a pretzel, that stuff was hell on cutting tools. Apparently it contains a lot of silica (and occasionally whole rock inclusions). Between clamping down on the table saw blade like a brake caliper, to dulling carbide tools, to refusing to absorb finish, that crap was miserable to work with. Holds up well in a saltwater environment, though.

 

[sean donato]

Amazing what issues you have with different species of trees. All part of the trials of being a wood guy lol.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Amazing what issues you have with different species of trees. All part of the trials of being a wood guy lol.

Aussie has its whole own set of rules in regards to fine red dust and bloody hard trees, throw in the intense heat of an Aussie bush fire and you are going to discover some "interesting" cutting conditions.

 

[KarlD]

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

View attachment 917783

You think he may have been wearing a tinfoil hat and picked on a burned out 5G tower?

 

[tomalophicon]

yep definitely dulls chains.
ive also had trouble with fine charcoal dust getting into the clutch causing problems with engagement

 

[Skippydiesel]

With dead eucalyptus and such trees , the ants will get in between the bark and the sapwood & carry sand & soils into their galleries, sometimes it' can be very thick and sandy, that will take the edge straight off the cutters.
Turpentine is high in silica & hard on cutting edges.

I think you may have it - evidence of old termite activity in the main trunk (area where having the problem).

Have often seen termite damage(this is Australia) but this is the first time that I have experienced such a problem and so fast.

 

[Bwildered]

I think you may have it - evidence of old termite activity in the main trunk (area where having the problem).

Have often seen termite damage(this is Australia) but this is the first time that I have experienced such a problem and so fast.

Another thing is also the rain will splash dirt & sand onto tree butts & logs on the ground, especially bad in sandstone country or near the beach.